ALMS Rnd 11: Petit Le Mans 3-6 Oct 2007

[Chaos81]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

When all is said and done ISNT THAT ENOUGH COVERAGE???

So what you're saying is if Speed had a bunch of different shows covering ALMS, LMS and whatever else you wanted, you wouldn't care if they didn't show actual racing? Doesn't that kind of contradict you complaining about them not showing the race in it's entirety?

[chernaudi]

First of all on the Speed Channel thing: I they didn't have so many crap reality shows that have turned Speed into the MTV of automotive channels instead of the ESPN of automotive channels, and if NASCAR and Fox News Corp. wasn't bankrolling Speed, we'd get to see most of the Petit Le Mans.

Either that or get Motors TV.

On the race: Can the LMP2 cars, which are notoriously unreliable in races over 4 hours, make it to the end? With the Porsche's reliablitly still questionalbe, and with the Courage based Acuras using the relatively crappy '06 Hewland transmissions that gave Courage so much trouble that the switched to Xtrac for this year, who knows.

Overall win may be for the taking for Audi if they don't mess up, as they'll be consistanly faster than the LMP2s(fast corners and long straights), and should(key word should) be more reliable. Fortunatly for Audi, what ever problems that they have at Sebring and Le Mans get ironed out by PLM. But Porsche and Acura have probably done some homework in that area too.

[The359]

I should point out Formula One gets all of their races shown (on Speed) live, and even has "talk" shows to go with it.

[C6R Racing Fan]

Shimoda out and D.Manning in the Arena Zytek.

[cmk]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

That depends who is footing the bill for Tinseau being in the car (either the Pesca and/or the Creation, doesn't it?

Pretty much what I was driving at right there, thanks Graham. Primat is a lot of the $$ behind the adventure I wager, of course he would have some say if they are looking for a 2nd pro. If it seems odd to you Badger, well, nothing anyone can do to change that.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by The359

I should point out Formula One gets all of their races shown (on Speed) live, and even has "talk" shows to go with it.

FOM requires all races to be shown LIVE with any broadcast company that has a contract with FOM for F1 races.

[TWK]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

On the race: Can the LMP2 cars, which are notoriously unreliable in races over 4 hours, make it to the end? With the Porsche's reliablitly still questionalbe, and with the Courage based Acuras using the relatively crappy '06 Hewland transmissions that gave Courage so much trouble that the switched to Xtrac for this year, who knows.

Overall win may be for the taking for Audi if they don't mess up, as they'll be consistanly faster than the LMP2s(fast corners and long straights), and should(key word should) be more reliable. Fortunatly for Audi, what ever problems that they have at Sebring and Le Mans get ironed out by PLM. But Porsche and Acura have probably done some homework in that area too.

That's old news. Even at Sebring, four of the first six were LMP2s...Acura took the second and third overall podium steps. Don't count on them all dropping..this isn't the LMS, this is real pro racing.

[yamato]

The Spotter's Guide is up!

spotter's guide

enjoy!

[canam]

I hope they last as we will get a true measure of their pace over a race length that is of substance.

Sebring was an example of reliability, but was it a fluke? From memory the attrition rate in the sprint races was somewhat higher.

Unless of course ALMS regs diverge again next year, this is the only real enduro event left where LMP2 has a chance of overall victory (Laguna Seca is a sprit race in my book). Next year, the weight changes will most likely render them uncompetitive against P1 cars. Hopefully, this will convince these manufacturer teams to up their sticks....and go into P1 where they should be.

[chernaudi]

That's old news. Even at Sebring, four of the first six were LMP2s...Acura took the second and third overall podium steps. Don't count on them all dropping..this isn't the LMS, this is real pro racing.

Yes, but they still had reliability issues. The AGR Acura almost blew a gearbox in the final hour. The Lowe's Acura was slow, and was involved in accidents. The Highcroft Acura and all the Porsches had electrical problems.

Granted, the LMP2 cars are more reliable than last year, or in the LMS, but they seem to be sprint race specials to me. They only can challenge Audi, and the better LMP1 gas cars if they can hold it together for 10 hours, which is somewhat doubtful, as the Acuras, Porsches, and the lone Zytec use flatplane crank V8s that rev upto or over 10,000 rpm, and the AER powered cars(Mazda, Van Der Ster Radical) run as much turbo boost as the Audi R10s-in a 2 liter 4 banger!

Even with the Road Atlanta circuit never being the car breaker that Sebring is, and being resurfaced, and with 2 less hours, I'll bet you that the LMP2 cars will drop back with issues if they try to run flat out. Remember, the Binnie Lola that won Le Mans this year was one of the slower LMP2 cars, but it built up such a gap by not having problems, that it spent most of the final hour in the garage because it had such a gap that they were able to save the car that way.

Besides, look at PLM last year. It would've been an easy Audi 1-2 if Werner hadn't been taken out by a Panoz GT car, the Creation and Zytec fell back with gearbox and puncture damage/starter problems, and both Porsche's had engine problems, that though fixed, they weren't fast enough to make up the lost time.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by Chaos81

So what you're saying is if Speed had a bunch of different shows covering ALMS, LMS and whatever else you wanted, you wouldn't care if they didn't show actual racing? Doesn't that kind of contradict you complaining about them not showing the race in it's entirety?

No I am saying you can say what you need to say about the series with -

NASCAR Race Day (Pre Race) and NASCAR Victory Lane (Post Race). For more information go to speedtv dot com or watch more in-depth interviews on The Speed Report.

The extra shows are just FILLER....

They replay the last race at least twice a week in different formats. They have a "Monday QB" style recap show on Mondays, 3/4 of all the calls on WT are about Jr or "Smoke".

THAT IS ENOUGH!

Stop defending Fox/NASCAR paying the bills. Seems to me the bills were getting PAID when it was Speedvision....

I am fine with the coverage ALMS currently gets. I find Inside F1 BORING in general. An ALMS show would be pretty much like that, minus the European accents... Unless you get Diffy or Fish to do the commentary.

You could go back to how it was - Speedvision and I know many non-evangelical NASCAR fans would like the channel to return to its roots (minus the Space Shuttle launches)

[Justin Moran]

Originally Posted by TWK

Don't count on them all dropping..this isn't the LMS, this is real pro racing.

Do you mean its IMSA rules v ACO rules? P2 performance breaks so the racing is attractive to a manufacturer? Instead of the accepted differential in performance expected in the LMS?

Kindly explain?

[dj4monie]

I think he means that unlike LMS, the ALMS LMP2 cars are run by fully professional factory teams with factory paid drivers (AGR, Highcroft, Penske) and by a highly skilled semi-pro team (Dyson).

The best team by far is RML. However they are a pairing of one pro driver (Erodos) and one gentlemen driver (Newton). So while the car is highly prepared and professionally crewed it would only be a fair fight if they had to race vs Chris Dyson (non Pro) and Guy Smith (Pro)

The professionalism of the Acura backed team for example is WELL BEYOND all the LMS teams but RML.

Fernandez took an "off the shelf" Lola and put a reliable and powerful Acura powerplant in it and been COMPETITIVE to say the least.

That is about as close as your going to get to a team similar to RML and I am fairly sure Fernandez/Diaz would smoke them in overall pace...

The rules are the same (as of Lime Rock), its the level of professionalism and factory involvement that you see the 2-3 second a lap difference.

I am pretty sure you will see Fernandez over their with his Lola/Acura and just watch the kind of gap he puts on the rest of the LMP2 field and I don't see anybody remotely close but RML but Diaz is a stronger driver...

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by TWK

Don't count on them all dropping..this isn't the LMS, this is real pro racing.

Every now and again, comments are made on here which range between the unnecessary, and the insulting. I would have expected better of you, Tom.

[The359]

One final note on NASCAR and Speed TV: ALMS races (and most every racing series) run on the weekends. All of NASCAR's filler shows are on the weekdays. Hence, they do not conflict with the schedule.

The only things that takes priority over ALMS races are NASCAR series practice, qualifying, or races. Even if the channel returned to "Speedvision" and dropped all the talk shows, we would still only get 5 hours of Petit Le Mans - NASCAR is the largest series so it gets priority.

[brielga]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Every now and again, comments are made on here which range between the unnecessary, and the insulting. I would have expected better of you, Tom.

I thought the same initially but maybe he's just referring to the LMP2 class.... (pro vs privateer). Let's wait and see.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by C9/89

Do you mean its IMSA rules v ACO rules? P2 performance breaks so the racing is attractive to a manufacturer? Instead of the accepted differential in performance expected in the LMS?

Kindly explain!

[Justin Moran]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Kindly explain!

Why do I need to explain a question or three!?

Dj4monie explained, with extreme eloquence, what to my eyes was a dig at the "European" LMS teams. I merely believed the original poster was dissing the LMS as unproffesional and misconstued his actual intent!

[Aerodynamic]

Manning in for Shimoda.....hmmm

Perhaps Shimoda is needed elsewhere...........

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by C9/89

Why do I need to explain a question or three!?

Dj4monie explained, with extreme eloquence, what to my eyes was a dig at the "European" LMS teams. I merely believed the original poster was dissing the LMS as unproffesional and misconstued his actual intent!

I have no problem with you taking offense with the “dissing”.
It's the IMSA vs ACO rule thing and the performance brakes (no less!) for P2's that I find intriguing.
I believe we were talking with reference to Petit Le Mans, so in what way are the P’2 favored with performance brakes?

[Justin Moran]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

I have no problem with you taking offense with the “dissing”.
It's the IMSA vs ACO rule thing and the performance brakes (no less!) for P2's that I find intriguing.
I believe we were talking with reference to Petit Le Mans, so in what way are the P’2 favored with performance brakes?

Granted that for this race the performance breaks have been somewhat diminished but I was referring to the IMSA ruling on restrictors prior to this round.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by C9/89

Granted that for this race the performance breaks have been somewhat diminished but I was referring to the IMSA ruling on restrictors prior to this round.

OK, I understand, but just for the record, they were not performance breaks. The restrictor sizes that IMSA allowed up until mid-season, were the same as all of last year!
What IMSA did, was to delay the castrating of the P2's that the ACO takes such pleasure in doing.
So, no performance breaks, just a delay in castration!

[paul-collins]

... not to mention that the results wouldn't have changed any ...

Seriously, does anyone think the Porsche wins at street circuits had anything to do with a few extra horses?

[minimangler]

Originally Posted by paul-collins

... not to mention that the results wouldn't have changed any ...

Seriously, does anyone think the Porsche wins at street circuits had anything to do with a few extra horses?

Of course not: a) top quality tactics, b) top quality drivers c) awesome agility.
a) to beat acura, b) to beat everyone, c) to beat Audi.

[canam]

Originally Posted by paul-collins

... not to mention that the results wouldn't have changed any ...

Seriously, does anyone think the Porsche wins at street circuits had anything to do with a few extra horses?

'...and all for the want of a horseshoe nail.'

I don't think 20-25 horses is something that can be ignored. Heck, look at the hoo ha over the 19 horses from Mr Pug himself.

Yes, they do everything well, but they still had more horses than the ACO regs provided for...and that is a fact. We don't know what might have happened if they had run to ACO spec for the whole year and we never will.