TVR Griffiths 200/400 and their Chassis Numbers

[John Turner]

Welcome back, Jon, and good info, too, thanks!

[terence]

Just got an update from the owner and yes it is 200-03.It is the third 200 built by the factory and was the first of ten RHD 200s built by Blackpool.200-04 was raced by Gerry although I have no idea where it is now or if it still survives [probably hidden away in a barn].Jon,was your car the third supplied by Barnet Mo Co?

[jellison]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Just got an update from the owner and yes it is 200-03.It is the third 200 built by the factory and was the first of ten RHD 200s built by Blackpool.200-04 was raced by Gerry although I have no idea where it is now or if it still survives [probably hidden away in a barn].Jon,was your car the third supplied by Barnet Mo Co?

Mine is the 3rd car made in the Griffith factory my Jack Griffith team in the US. The numbers 200-03 are not the US chassis numbers, Mike I think has these later UK numbers on the Register chassis tracker though (they should have dates in the number I’d have thought – will check with Mike).

I have the html Register of all the Cars from when Joe Rauh handed over the Register to Mike Mooney - I'll see if the Uk cars are on there - I think they are. I have the original chassis plate for mine and Mike knows the full history of my car.

These cars are the later Griffs that the UK Factory built presumably not from the Griffith US factory.





Gregor might pop onto here and be able to comment more on the 04 UK car his father drove.

For Griff Race car lovers - here is some footage from my TR4 of Steve Wattons ex Monster.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3263131768683885766&hl=en

The thing is a Beast - Brands not its ideal setting!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1469841583459902993&hl=en
That Fly had Great Timing!!!!

Also this is fun - Roger Connells Griff is at the end (few more laps and I'd have had him - cracking fun, first race in the 6 in full all steel race engined spec – a lot faster now though!).

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...67585712&hl=en

[DaveGT6]

Being a humble Grantura owner I've been following this lively debate with interest. From what Jon says do we conclude that this is a case of "two countries separated by a common language?" in that some Griffiths are original US build and follow one number sequence, whilst others are UK build and follow another? Hence two cars can lay claim to being the third car built etc.? I know that the Griffith was a US car but didn't realise that TVR UK also produced completed cars in the UK. Were they produced concurently or did Blackpool pick up the pieces after the US operation failed following the dock strike?

[Moby]

That's correct. When the Griffith Corporation folded in the US, Martin Lilley built 10 (I think) in the UK, RHD cars, before developing the idea into the Tuscan.

This is where the FiA have always shown a reluctancy towards Griffiths, especially when TVR would produce log boks that said '2 seater sports car, TVR'.

That identity could be related to just about anything. Although mine was a genuine car from the States with all the owner history with it, I never bothered to go the FiA route because of the 'potential' hassle.

Good luck to all those that do though, I love seeing the cars obliterate all the 'jolly good chaps' in their Cobras and E-Types. Probably another reason the FiA don't like them. (Oops, shouldn't say that about the hallowed, should I)

[jellison]

Think we need some pic's of these Beasts.
Moby's

Roger Connells

Back of the Boot car with Fubes drooling....

The Shipman Weapon
- Too Wide??
LAK's

Randy in the US's restoration (road car) - paint scheme is a copy of the way Jack Griffith ran his Cobra in the early 60's.

Fiscracers

Farrell Prestons US Racer

Stack more from my Griff folde - have all the chassis number if anyone interested No Apologies for these Griffs mostly being racers!

I have LOADS more - just ask.

Oooh and Mine!

[DaveGT6]

Some nice piccies there Jon. The first is the ex-Steve Watton car isn't it? Who has it now? Also there seem to be some seriously pumped up rear arches going on with these "FiA" racers run by the great and the good!! Fisc Racers looks like a proper car.

[terence]

Yes there are some good pictures there,but who get's the widest Rear Arch prize? My vote goe's to the Boot car.

[esper]

so there is no "wheelarch" measure in the FIA papers of Griffiths????

[marcel koreman]

Look in the homologation papers, the with of the car

[terence]

Originally Posted by esper

so there is no "wheelarch" measure in the FIA papers of Griffiths????

Only that they should not be altered.

[Peter Mallett]

Welcome to our friendly forum Marcel. Do you race a Griff?

[jellison]

Originally Posted by DaveGT6

Some nice piccies there Jon. The first is the ex-Steve Watton car isn't it? Who has it now? Also there seem to be some seriously pumped up rear arches going on with these "FiA" racers run by the great and the good!! Fisc Racers looks like a proper car.

Yep Steve's Monster (aka Moby ) (ex) ripping it up in the Thoroughbreds.

Best not go there on the wheel arch thing - Whole can of worms!

More later when I have time.

Also scroll back to my links with the 3 videos, 3 show Steve Monster (from my 4) and 1 (Roger Connells). ENJOY (no coments on my spin please ).

[marcel koreman]

peter
I am a dutch scruteneer, the overall with of the TVR is 162.5 cm
Homologation 206

[Peter Mallett]

Thanks Marcel so now we know.

[jellison]

Originally Posted by marcel koreman

peter
I am a dutch scruteneer, the overall with of the TVR is 162.5 cm
Homologation 206

Is that the width they came out of the factory? i.e. you can't basically flare them in fia comp?

[Peter Mallett]

Assuming the Homologation papers are those presented by the factory, then yes, that is the width. If flaring takes them over that width then it's not running to FIA Homologation.

[jellison]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Assuming the Homologation papers are those presented by the factory, then yes, that is the width. If flaring takes them over that width then it's not running to FIA Homologation.

Well anyone exceeding this and wanting to run in FIA events must be barking to think they can go over it and not have police hit them hard. As it is the powers that be do not seem to want Griffs there anyway, spanking the Cobra's etc, this will be an easy way to slap them down - I'll check my document on this too.

[Peter Mallett]

Well I'm not sure there's any ulteriror motive, just that if you allow the Griffs to modify you'd also necessarily have to allow the E Types and Cobras etc. therefore presumably neutralising any advantage the Griff gained and making it a waste of time.

In that respect people may as well build to the homologated dimensions and save everyone a bunch od wonga.

[jellison]

Originally Posted by marcel koreman

peter
I am a dutch scruteneer, the overall with of the TVR is 162.5 cm
Homologation 206

Yep - double checked the papers - Overall width = 162.5cm.

So anyone exceeded this then they are just plain Stupid (as it has to be one of the easiest thing to measure), so anyone running FIA excceding this is not really doing other Griff runner much of a favour, if the FIA are looking for ways to not allow Griffs out there in the first place.

My car being a Grantura bodied one (early 200 style) has std extrenal dimension, but think the later 200's and 400's had the rear wheel scollop / flare the same size / width, only aft of this (where the body narrows again) are the early Grantura style bodies different (and the rear screen size) to the later 200 / 400 Bab the Bomb rear ends.

Think all the GB Griff had the Cortina later rear, as it was a few years on from the US original cars and well past the US switch to the Cortina rear end.

[terence]

One of the nice things of running standard type wheels is there is no need to blow the arch's out,one of the problems that has been encountered by some owners.Therefore there will be no problem[ if the car has standard wheels fitted] with the related paperwork.Possibly a similar situation with E Types having full radious rear arches?

[Moby]

I think one of the origins with the wheelarch problems is that the homologation paper 106 allows upto 9" wheels. The original wheels were 5".

I understand there were some larger wheelarches homologated following the Guards Trophy race in 1965, where they were first fitted.

[Peter Mallett]

Hmm,

But if they were homologated does that mean the aforementioned dimension includes them?

[Moby]

Possibly not.

As I understand the Appendix K regulations, the width dimension is taken from the widest point at the 'C' pillar. That is at the rear of the doors.

Therefore the wheelarches do not come into the equasion.

Its been a long time since I read through the App 'K' reg's though, so I could well be mistaken.

[terence]

I think that the main problems are directed at the american built cars.As homologation was never applied for either side of the atlantic it was applied in retrospect-in Germany.It is quite rare to find an un-molested 200 UK built car body,I think there should be little if any problems with these cars[as long as everything else conforms]