The Current State of IndyCar

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Birddog07

Open chassis like in F1 with continual development wouldn't work, but open chassis with no development would work. Big teams could maybe even construct their own chassis if they wanted, or at least aero kit onto their purchased chassis. Smaller teams would have competitive options from multiple manufacturers to purchase.

The problem with F1 is the FIA has restricted and reigned back the costs of chassis and engine development so much, it's practically a spec series. The result is the wealthier teams rule the roost; sounds familiar.

I still think the IRL/Iconic committee totally messed up, by not choosing Lola, who originally came up with the aero-kit concept and a universal tub that Indy Lights and IndyCar teams could both use, saving Lights teams the cost of a new tub, if they wanted to race in IndyCar itself.

[JacobP]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

The problem with F1 is the FIA has restricted and reigned back the costs of chassis and engine development so much, it's practically a spec series.

You haven't been following F1 in the last 5 years or so, have you? Engines were frozen and equalized, but there was plenty of development and innovation in chassis design. Teams have being trying completely different suspension designs, DRS setups, kers, double diffusers, etc. The cars are far from spec.

[JacobP]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Why would the cost of an open formula chassis necessarily be anymore than the cost of the current car? The biggest cost facing teams is spare parts, which they have to buy from Dallara, rather than making their own or buying cheaper from a third party.

I thought the whole point of going with a single chassis design was to reduce the costs. Developing a chassis for just two-three teams should be a lot more expensive instead of spreading the cost over +10 teams. If the teams aren't happy with the spares costs, then they have missed something during the negotiation process. Speaking of spare parts, I am sure the teams with manufacturing capability can build and install their spare parts. It's not a Dallara is checking what going inside every car for each race?

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Why would the cost of an open formula chassis necessarily be anymore than the cost of the current car?

Competition & ongoing development is what drives up cost.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JacobP

You haven't been following F1 in the last 5 years or so, have you? Engines were frozen and equalized, but there was plenty of development and innovation in chassis design. Teams have being trying completely different suspension designs, DRS setups, kers, double diffusers, etc. The cars are far from spec.

No I haven't. Isn't that German fellow Schumacher WDC? I would have thought the freezing of engine development is a restriction by definition. KERS will have an effect on chassis design to some extent because of the weight of the device but DRS is purely aero.

Indeed there has been some innovation but when someone comes up with something like the double diffuser or McLaren's f-duct it has subsequently been banned; so much for reducing costs. The result is the cars are very specy.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JacobP

I thought the whole point of going with a single chassis design was to reduce the costs. Developing a chassis for just two-three teams should be a lot more expensive instead of spreading the cost over +10 teams. If the teams aren't happy with the spares costs, then they have missed something during the negotiation process. Speaking of spare parts, I am sure the teams with manufacturing capability can build and install their spare parts. It's not a Dallara is checking what going inside every car for each race?

You would have thought but that's not the case. The cost of the chassis is much more than originally estimated. Buying spare parts solely from Dallara was part of the deal struck by the IRL, when they chose Dallara as the chassis constructor for the series. You could say more fool the teams for blindly accepting the IRL's decision and not scrutinising the deal thoroughly.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Competition & ongoing development is what drives up cost.

Development can drive up costs but the DW12 is about to finish its second season and I don't think there's been that much development to the car in that time, that would account for a noticeable increase in costs.

Motorsport's about competition.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Development can drive up costs but the DW12 is about to finish its second season and I don't think there's been that much development to the car in that time, that would account for a noticeable increase in costs.

Motorsport's about competition.

I was more saying that an open formula via development drives up the cost.

The DW12 costs haven't gone up since its inception, I believe the issues has been the base costs (chassis & spares) were higher than anticipated

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

I was more saying that an open formula via development drives up the cost.

The DW12 costs haven't gone up since its inception, I believe the issues has been the base costs (chassis & spares) were higher than anticipated

I think you'll find they have and I refer you to your post #32 on this thread for the second time.

At the bottom of the fifth paragraph of the crash.net article http://www.crash.net/indycar/news/18...aero_kits.html it says, ''the DW12 chassis was meant to cost around $385,000 but in practice has come in at nearer $600,000.''

[D.R.T.]

Not disputing that - what I am suggesting is that this isnt a development cost increase but a base purchase cost totalling $600,000

Each chassis would remain $600,000 each purchase where as under an open formula this 'may' increase throughout the year or year to year as the package is developed.

[HJJ]

Some updates from AR-1.

0/18/13 Did low TV ratings just cost IndyCar another major sponsor? The noose tightens as Tony George's 'Vision' for IndyCar Racing reaches full maturity - kill CART and let my family run the show. With TV ratings on NBC Sports Network now reaching all-time lows of around 0.1, the sponsors are abandoning ship. The 'family' is more than happy to collect the NBC Sports Network 'check' while the teams struggle to survive because they cannot land sponsorship with such low TV ratings. Hence they revert to ride-buyers, which leads to a revolving door of drivers, which leads to zero fan retention, which leads to even lower TV ratings. It's a vicious downward spiral that appears to have no happy ending.

So who is the latest victim in the family's 'vision'? Hewlett Packard's primary sponsorship of the No. 77 Schmidt Hamilton Racing Honda Indy car will come to a conclusion at the end the season, according to SHM co-owner Davey Hamilton.

Ric Peterson took an ownership stake in the Schmidt team for 2013, with the No. 55 Honda driven by rookie Tristan Vautier carrying the Schmidt Peterson Motorsports name on its entry list. The departure by HP will not impact the SPM program, but the reigning Firestone Indy Lights series champion, who has had a variety of sponsors piece a full season of funding together, could also be looking for funding to continue.

“It's still up in the air,” said Peterson of Vautier returning next season. “We just found out about HP, and went from having to find funding for one car to now needing to find it for two. We have some lines on things, and we'll be back, no question about that. It's just tough news, but we'll be working over the winter to get both cars funded.”

10/19/13 Did low TV ratings just cost IndyCar another major sponsor? (Update) UPDATE The sponsors are dropping like flies now as the low TV ratings noose tightens. Honda has issued the following statement regarding its decision to drop title sponsorship of the IndyCar Series’ Grand Prix of St. Petersburg after nine seasons:
“We continually evaluate our marketing promotions to assure that we have a portfolio of programs which reaches Honda’s broad customer base. The 2014 season will mark a strategic shift for American Honda in the allocation of its motorsports and marketing resources, in order to amplify its visibility at key events on the IndyCar Series schedule. We believe race sponsorships provide a unique at-track opportunity to reach racing enthusiasts and expose them to our brand and products. Moving forward, we will focus our efforts on the goal of providing the best fan experiences possible.”

In a Friday evening report from Danielle Paquette of the Tampa Bay Times, race president Tim Ramsberger seemed to indicate that the event was caught off-guard by the decision.

“To say we’re surprised is an understatement,” Ramsberger told the Times. “It’s a tough thing to experience but I don’t think it’ll damper the race. It won’t affect us going forward.”

Honda had been the race’s title sponsor since its first edition under Indy Racing League/IndyCar sanction in 2005; it had been a Champ Car race for its inaugural running in 2003.

However, both Ramsberger and St. Petersburg mayor Bill Foster were bullish about the race’s long-term future in comments made for the Times’ report.

“Sponsors come and go,” Foster said. “No one’s married to Honda. We’re married to the Grand Prix of St. Petersburg.”

In a press release, Ramsberger said he learned last week of Honda’s decision, but that the race is “grateful for their support over the years and are pleased by the way in which the event has grown during this time.”

The release also expressed confidence about the race’s ability to attract new sponsors that can augment the current support of the race from local and national partners, such as Firestone.

“They’ve all experienced first-hand the many benefits of the event both on-site and through the visibility of a global television audience,” Ramsberger said. “We’re at the cusp of a new era for our event and I’m confident new and existing partners will step up and enjoy the growing benefits the Grand Prix of St. Petersburg has to offer.” NBC Sports

10/20/13 Low TV ratings cost IndyCar yet another major sponsor (2nd Update) UPDATE #2 Any big name sponsors IndyCar and its team have continue to drop like flies as a result of the series low TV ratings because the owners of the series won't pay to put all the races on ABC so ratings average at least 1.0 and over 1 million viewers per broadcast. As a result money is flowing out of the paddock much faster than it is coming in. The latest to fly the coup - McAfee it would appear. Dragon Racing owner Jay Penske said the current 2014 budget only allows for a couple of IndyCar events and a Formula E program. Dragon will compete in the two IndyCar events at Indianapolis Motor Speedway (May 10 on the road course, May 25 on the oval), Penske confirmed. We have updated the 2014 IndyCar Silly Season page with the recent losses in sponsors and driver changes.

[Peat]

urgh. Greeeaaat.

So, the series will struggle on into next summer and then disappear down a hole (and no-one will hear it scream).

That makes some bleak reading.

[Marcus666]

The world is not fair. Although I didn't watch the race, the highlight showed that it must have been a heck of a race. How can ratings go down that far when there is a championship decider on a Superspeedway? How can there be so few people in the grandstands? I can't believe there is always millions who watch Vettel win every weekend, but this there have been battles and 10 different winners in Indycar...

Is Indycar in such a bad shape as Champ Car was in 2007-2008?

[Paradise City]

America is now NASCAR country. It used to be Indycar and NASCAR country. You watched Unser, you turned over to Earnhardt.

Indycar subdivided, cut off its fans, NASCAR swooped them up and they just had no interest in coming back now matter what marketing trick the IRL went with. I guess the motorsport landscape has changed. F1 can be very sterile but its wealthy and carries authority and you can pull in an audience with that.

Anyway - Hinchcliffe did draw in a sponsor to replace GoDaddy so he's on the grid for next year.

[bjohnsonsmith]

A truncated series, with races crammed in, a seven month off season, TV ratings down, sponsors leaving; it doesn't bode well at all. If the series survives into 2015 it will be nothing short of a miracle.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Not disputing that - what I am suggesting is that this isnt a development cost increase but a base purchase cost totalling $600,000

Each chassis would remain $600,000 each purchase where as under an open formula this 'may' increase throughout the year or year to year as the package is developed.

It's a massive base price increase considering the initial price was $385,000. There is to be some further development of the car's undertray, which will add to the cost.

[FstrthnU]

My question is, where will everybody go if Indycar tanks? And what will happen to the Indy 500? Some of the big teams like Ganassi and Penske already have NASCAR programs, but the smaller programs would suddenly have an empty year.

Surely the Indy 500 would survive in some shape or form. Would USCC have anything to gain?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by FstrthnU

My question is, where will everybody go if Indycar tanks? And what will happen to the Indy 500? Some of the big teams like Ganassi and Penske already have NASCAR programs, but the smaller programs would suddenly have an empty year.

Surely the Indy 500 would survive in some shape or form. Would USCC have anything to gain?

Obviously regarding NASCAR, Andretti is the exception but if next season does tank, a lot will depend on how much the big teams like Andretti, Ganassi and Penske wish to carry on in IndyCar. Next year, they are each going to field 4 car teams. If they were to leave, it would severely diminish the status of the 500.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Marcus666

Is Indycar in such a bad shape as Champ Car was in 2007-2008?

I wouldnt suggest so.

People spinning that it will be a miracle to see the 2015 season I think are more hoping rather than being realistic.

I think the AR1 article suggested the problems were linked to ride buyers - would be interested to look closer at stats but the current driver line up must be one of the strongest since the early 00's.

We have some new sponsors for 2014 and the return of JPM so plenty to look forward to whilst hopefully stabilising tv viewership.

The AR1 reporting I wouldnt suggest is the most objective reports - seems highly driven on emotion & bias. By no means and I suggesting it should be positive news but by no means is it addressing the new sponsors, drivers or cars in the works say like a Racer does.

[marcostraz]

On time, again, complaints and criticism...always pessimism...I think this is one of the major problems in IndyCar...we saw the open wheel largest grid (Formula 1 has 22 cars, 4 of them "fake"), we saw battles, side by side, races uncertain, so many different winners, small teams able to oppose and some times defeat the biggest teams, championship uncertain until almost last lap (if not until really last lap)...but some "fans" continue to talk bad...I think it would be useful to occasionally talk about the positive things instead of always complaining...

[DS"]

Originally Posted by FstrthnU

And what will happen to the Indy 500?

Maybe they should just invite the Whelen Modified Series to the 500. Most of the people who watch or attend the Indy 500 just do so, because it's Indy. Not because of IndyCar.

[mythoughtsareracing]

The problem isn't that the racing lacks excitement.
The problem isn't that drivers are uninteresting and/or without captivating stories.
The problem isn't a lack of rivalries, both old and new.
The problem isn't an uninspired and lackluster (or worse - nonexistent) history.

The problem is that the only people who pay attention are race fans. Furthermore, we as race fans have been paying attention all along. We aren't the ones that IndyCar needs to convince, because we're already here.

There are three groups that IndyCar (or any other race series that wants viewers and/or fans), and all three have to be targeted differently.
In my mind, anyway.

Casual race fan
The casual race fan already likes motorsport. In the US, it probably means they are a NASCAR fan, since NASCAR is the 800lb gorilla. These are the fans that need to go to a race live. They need to sit in the stands, hear the revs & turbo whine, smell the race fuel, etc.
They are are either going to like IndyCar or they aren't. I have some friends who are NASCAR only, and refuse to watch anything else. One uses the phrase "I don't like them go karts," so you can understand the mentality. It's this group that we, as fellow race fans (and, specifically IndyCar fans) can help grow the sport by exposing casual fans to IndyCar.

My personal PSA: Take a friend to an IndyCar race, if you can. You'll help IndyCar grow.

Accidental Viewer
These are those who happen upon a race on TV or attend a race after winning tickets or through a sponsor affiliation. They are completely green and know nothing about racing or IndyCar. Since they don't know about racing or IndyCar at all, so they should be educated. If they learn some of the history, the technology and are able to understand enough to enjoy the exciting racing on-track, they may want to come back.
Unfortunately, this group is the reason that the on-air crew has to do all the "dumbed-down" segments, so they can introduce the greenhorns to what the rest of us already know.

Non Race Fan
The name says it all. They aren't race fans for whatever reason. So to convert them to a race fan is difficult. Perhaps they have alleigance to some other sport (football, baseball, soccer, basketball, etc.) or they aren't into sports overall.
This is the group I'm clueless about. I have no clue how to expose a non race fan in such a way that it will be appealing to them and they would show interest.

Note: The opinions expressed above are mine and mine alone.

[Salamus]

Originally Posted by mythoughtsareracing

Non Race Fan
The name says it all. They aren't race fans for whatever reason. So to convert them to a race fan is difficult. Perhaps they have alleigance to some other sport (football, baseball, soccer, basketball, etc.) or they aren't into sports overall.
This is the group I'm clueless about. I have no clue how to expose a non race fan in such a way that it will be appealing to them and they would show interest.

I really like your post. I'll expand on this section if you don't mind.

There are two types of non-race fans, 1) car people and 2) the others.
1) I have a bunch of friends who watch shows like Top Gear and know a reasonable amount about cars but don't watch motorsport. I introduced one of my friends to the ALMS and now he watches almost every race because he likes the GT classes. Another one of my friends began to like IndyCars because of the speed. These kinds of people are the easiest to expose to motorsport because they already like cars in general.

2) The others are people who show no interest in cars and sports, or show interest in other sports. Sadly, it's really hard to convince these people to watch motorsport (I've tried). They commonly reply with "the races are too long", "nothing is happening", "they are just cars going around in circles". These people are definitely a lost cause. On the other hand, celebrities like Patrick Dempsey, may bring in some new faces, but I doubt a celebrity would enter IndyCar. Oh well, you can't please everyone.

[rwintle]

There's also another type of fan, perhaps in the minority: those who go to races because they are "events". This is true big-time in Formula 1 (Monaco being the most obvious case I guess). In IndyCar, there are certainly fans like this at some of the street races (Toronto for sure, I'm guessing the others too). Sometimes they might talk other friends into coming for the party. Once in a while one or other of these people might find they really like the racing as well as the beer, food, midway games, and scantily-clad sponsor representatives, and become more ardent fans of the racing in general.

I guess the message isn't really different from "mythoughtsareracing" 's initial post about "Casual Fans" - drag one to a race and see if they like it.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by marcostraz

On time, again, complaints and criticism...always pessimism...I think this is one of the major problems in IndyCar...we saw the open wheel largest grid (Formula 1 has 22 cars, 4 of them "fake"), we saw battles, side by side, races uncertain, so many different winners, small teams able to oppose and some times defeat the biggest teams, championship uncertain until almost last lap (if not until really last lap)...but some "fans" continue to talk bad...I think it would be useful to occasionally talk about the positive things instead of always complaining...

Is it any wonder there are complaints and criticism? IndyCar has produced some excellent racing, far better than F1 has this season but when you hear of TV ratings continuing to fall and sponsors leaving as a result, it doesn't really fill one with a sense of optimism. Derrick Walker has said next season is going to be transitional, let's hope this transition is for the betterment of the series.