BREAKAWAY - Page 5

Mark Mitchell · 19 Jun 2009, 14:20 (Ref:2486563)

I suspect that come tea-time tonight......the FIA will be without Max!

chillibowl · 19 Jun 2009, 14:31 (Ref:2486567)

Quote:

Originally Posted by littleman

The manufacturers have been plotting this breakaway series for a few years.

what ever happened to the GPMA? i thought after their breakaway threat was settled they said the group would continue to exist to examine (and possibly lay the foundations for) the possibilities of a new series.

maybe the FOTA have made more progress towards that goal and a rival series can be set up in time to start for next year.

Marbot · 19 Jun 2009, 14:42 (Ref:2486569)

Formula TOTP.

jab · 19 Jun 2009, 14:57 (Ref:2486577)

FIA to take legal action against breakaway teams

Starting to get pretty messy

**Bononi** · 19 Jun 2009, 15:05 (Ref:2486580)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jab

FIA to take legal action against breakaway teams

Starting to get pretty messy

That's exactly what they want (or expect)... everything going as planned.

Satorian · 19 Jun 2009, 15:12 (Ref:2486584)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

That's exactly what they want (or expect)... everything going as planned.

Agreed.

And it could turn into Pandora's box for FOG and FIA once they have to start opening their books during proceedings.

garcon · 19 Jun 2009, 15:42 (Ref:2486595)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jab

FIA to take legal action against breakaway teams

Starting to get pretty messy

So let's see that FIA press release in full.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The FIA

Press Release
The FIA and FOTA
19/06/2009

The FIA’s lawyers have now examined the FOTA threat to begin a breakaway series. The actions of FOTA as a whole, and Ferrari in particular, amount to serious violations of law including wilful interference with contractual relations, direct breaches of Ferrari's legal obligations and a grave violation of competition law. The FIA will be issuing legal proceedings without delay.

Preparations for the 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship continue but publication of the final 2010 entry list will be put on hold while the FIA asserts its legal rights.

(copyright FIA etc. Link to FIA website: http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre...a_and_fia.aspx )

And now let's translate it:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The FIA

Press Release
The FIA and FOTA
19/06/2009

Bluster bluster bluster.

Delay tactic. Retreat.

You can tell the FIA is fundamentally French can't you....

djb · 19 Jun 2009, 15:44 (Ref:2486598)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EERO

No good will come of this.

Max, Bernie, FOTA, Sir Frank, they are all screwing up a good thing.

It seems in all of this that some fundamental ideas have been forgotten.

The Fans should come first. The rules have gotten convoluted and arcane. Max is a tyrant. Bernie is greedy. The teams waste money. The tracks are boring. Racing is being promoted into markets that cannot fill the stands. Historic venues are being abandoned.

Yet despite this we have seen some amazing racing over the past few years.

If the FIA and FOTA do not compromise, I fear that the damage done will be as bad as it has been for CART and the IRL.

It's all rather depressing.

Hi Sir E, yup I agree with all your points--the CART/IRL scenario though I do feel is different, or at least not as depressing anyway.

The US situation I think was much more dependant or a result of a different fan base, I think the world F1 percentage of fans over the world who really know the sport and history etc is a different situation (especially given how the Stock car crowd popularity went up quite a lot after teh CART IRL split-marketing for sure, but more casual fans who enjoyed the "brawliness" of it over the snottiness of open wheeler--not articulating well here but I hope you get my drift)

I would hope that the European appreciation of the "pinnacle" of motorsport (along with the flash and pizazz of F1 in general) will mean that a two series thing would never really happen.

It just seems to me that common sense could lead to tech compromises that would really lead to a teams cost reduction (and not something silly like a tire warmer, but uber expensive doohickies of which there are oodles)

Obviously the teams are always going to have to be dragged kicking and screaming into compromises (always has been no?) especially when a team has a bagful of expensive doohickies already made and/or inherent in their cars design. But hasnt the kicking and screaming always been part of the dance of this sport?

I guess for me, so much of this is the clash of personalities of the people at the top, as there must surely be reasonable compromises to be made here.

Purist · 19 Jun 2009, 16:17 (Ref:2486604)

Doesn't the monopolistic way in which FIA has operated blatantly violate US and EU anti-trust laws?

duke_toaster · 19 Jun 2009, 16:19 (Ref:2486606)

Supposedly Spanky admitted that he would have to sanction the series under EU law.

JamesH · 19 Jun 2009, 16:26 (Ref:2486609)

Are we going to end up with a Premiership and a Champions league of F1 cars?

One ending up as the feeder series to the other?

tblincoe · 19 Jun 2009, 18:48 (Ref:2486657)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purist

Doesn't the monopolistic way in which FIA has operated blatantly violate US and EU anti-trust laws?

On it's face it would certainly appear so; however, the notion of freedom of contract is well-rooted in both bodies of law.

The very cause for the present controversy is born out of the express and implied agreements between the teams (including each individual team and FOTA as a whole) and the governing body (the FIA). Plainly stated, as things stand the FIA has the apparent authority to dictate the rules of the sport to the teams. The FIA's authority was obtained by consent of the current teams through the sanctioning rules governing the sport.

Given the nature of the relationship between a governing body and it's sport (whether it be racing or even traditional 'stick and ball' sports) the FIA is unlikely to be deemed by a court to have run afoul of antitrust laws. That being said, I'm not quite familiar with the French body of law on the matter, so maybe we need some clarification in that area.

I would have to say with confidence that at this point, the FIA's pending lawsuits against FOTA will have nothing to do with keeping the teams in the sport, but rather with keeping the teams from competing elsewhere; and if they do compete elsewhere, being paid in damages for the FOTA teams playing in another sandbox. There are but a few relevant examples of courts forcing entities to continue undesirable relationships with each other, and the current situation does not present an environment where the possibility of the FOTA teams continuing to compete in F1 can be compelled by court order.

Barring unforeseen goings-on behind the scenes, it seems to this observer that the legal action taken by the FIA is the nail in the coffin of any sort of compromise between the parties. As a racing fan, I hope that the FIA lawsuits fail, as they will only keep the teams, manufacturers, drivers, etc. we've grown to love from competing in a meaningful manner next season and beyond.

As a closing note, does anyone believe that any court, national or international, will assess the billions of dollars in penalties that will be sought by the FIA and its associated partners against automotive manufacturers that are already struggling with massive shortfalls in revenue? Over a sporting agreement? FOTA may just have played this one perfectly...

To be continued of course!

**Bononi** · 19 Jun 2009, 19:15 (Ref:2486666)

It simply won't happen. An agreement behind the scenes and the fall of Max is enough to put things back as F1 is known now. Max may scream that he's not the main cause, that anyone replacing would do the same, but that's not true.

davyboy · 19 Jun 2009, 19:23 (Ref:2486670)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

It simply won't happen. An agreement behind the scenes and the fall of Max is enough to put things back as F1 is known now. Max may scream that he's not the main cause, that anyone replacing would do the same, but that's not true.

I agree... I think that's exactly what will happen.

tblincoe · 19 Jun 2009, 20:10 (Ref:2486695)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

It simply won't happen. An agreement behind the scenes and the fall of Max is enough to put things back as F1 is known now. Max may scream that he's not the main cause, that anyone replacing would do the same, but that's not true.

If things were to happen that way, then I agree that the issue would be resolved and things would be business as usual in 2010; albeit with reduced costs and a few new faces on the grid.

Apparently we should know a bit more about this potential scenario on Wednesday of next week.

**Bononi** · 19 Jun 2009, 20:30 (Ref:2486706)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tblincoe

If things were to happen that way, then I agree that the issue would be resolved and things would be business as usual in 2010; albeit with reduced costs and a few new faces on the grid.

Ahn... I think it will happen but things would be in the way that FOTA wants !

Satorian · 19 Jun 2009, 20:31 (Ref:2486707)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

It simply won't happen. An agreement behind the scenes and the fall of Max is enough to put things back as F1 is known now. Max may scream that he's not the main cause, that anyone replacing would do the same, but that's not true.

Got an estimated time frame for that expectation?

Stuart Hill · 19 Jun 2009, 20:37 (Ref:2486708)

There must be millions of modern-day Formula One fans wondering why FIA president Max Mosley and his FIA Vice-President for Promotional Affairs Bernie Ecclestone contine to succeed in their powerplay against the manufacturers and their demand of a bigger role in the control of the sport and, of course, a bigger slice of the pie. Those fans only need to look back to see where Max and Bernie got their education. Three decades earlier, Mosley and Ecclestone were heading the opposition against the FIA in a power struggle that makes the current battle for political and economical supremacy look like child’s play. It was the FISA-FOCA war of the early eighties, also known as the ‘FIASCO’ war.

In the end it didn’t turn out as a fiasco after all since almost all who remained involved became the better of it – not least financially. Anyone with a need to understand why the sport has become what it is now – a multi-million dollar circus that conquered the world with a televised package called the FIA F1 World Championship – should study its period of genesis, the war that killed off the old-school championship and ended in a highly profitable Pax Concordiana.

The number of parallels and contrasts between then and now is striking:

Read this for a good history lesson.

jab · 19 Jun 2009, 22:19 (Ref:2486740)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

It simply won't happen. An agreement behind the scenes and the fall of Max is enough to put things back as F1 is known now. Max may scream that he's not the main cause, that anyone replacing would do the same, but that's not true.

But that doesn't solve a lot of problems for FOTA that still lie. They still won't have increased revenues and control over the rules

I think we've got to the stage where FOTA are now committed to going. I don't think it's a bluff or just ultimate brinksmanship. This is very real

Marbot · 19 Jun 2009, 23:14 (Ref:2486756)

I don't think Max is the problem.If the WMSC voted in the new regulations 22 to 2 in favour of.Who is the problem ?

Max has pretty much said that he will go if that's what they want.But they want more than that don't they!

**Bononi** · 20 Jun 2009, 00:29 (Ref:2486768)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Satorian

Got an estimated time frame for that expectation?

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=116549

**Bononi** · 20 Jun 2009, 00:30 (Ref:2486769)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart Hill

There must be millions of modern-day Formula One fans wondering why FIA president Max Mosley and his FIA Vice-President for Promotional Affairs Bernie Ecclestone contine to succeed in their powerplay against the manufacturers and their demand of a bigger role in the control of the sport and, of course, a bigger slice of the pie. Those fans only need to look back to see where Max and Bernie got their education. Three decades earlier, Mosley and Ecclestone were heading the opposition against the FIA in a power struggle that makes the current battle for political and economical supremacy look like child’s play. It was the FISA-FOCA war of the early eighties, also known as the ‘FIASCO’ war.

In the end it didn’t turn out as a fiasco after all since almost all who remained involved became the better of it – not least financially. Anyone with a need to understand why the sport has become what it is now – a multi-million dollar circus that conquered the world with a televised package called the FIA F1 World Championship – should study its period of genesis, the war that killed off the old-school championship and ended in a highly profitable Pax Concordiana.

The number of parallels and contrasts between then and now is striking:

Read this for a good history lesson.

Does any one remember ?

Certainly I do. I posted about it in another thread and an article from pitpass, a couple of days ago.

gttouring · 20 Jun 2009, 13:50 (Ref:2486956)

I see,
What i never came to understand is what in the universe kind of thinking led Mosely to [I]that[I] budget amount?
why not a gradual decrease, or the cap set by the teams..
or madness the technical regs he proposed open that up to every one now and keep budget for transportation down by only going to countries with a driver or manufacturer represented in the series....heh heh heh

Marbot · 20 Jun 2009, 14:02 (Ref:2486965)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gttouring

I see,
What i never came to understand is what in the universe kind of thinking led Mosely to [I]that[I] budget amount?

It wasn't Mosley,it was Tony Purnell who came up with those figures.Maybe it's all his fault?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gttouring

why not a gradual decrease, or the cap set by the teams..

You mean like 100,000,000 next year going down to 40,000,000 the year after ? Teams set the limit! If you want a bigger arguement than we have now...

Quote:

Originally Posted by gttouring

or madness the technical regs he proposed open that up to every one now and keep budget for transportation down by only going to countries with a driver or manufacturer represented in the series....heh heh heh

Don't you see that it's also FOTA that want to go to places like China,Russia,India etc.These are their new car markets.

JeremySmith · 20 Jun 2009, 15:00 (Ref:2486998)

One mans opinion concise and to the point..

http://www.f1technical.net/news/12706

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Ecclestone proposes breakaway championship	Pingguest	Formula One	36	20 Jun 2008 02:08
"A breakaway Formula One series" say the manufacturers...	Sparky	Formula One	3	6 Mar 2001 22:03