[BTCC] NGTC details released

[AndyS]

Not the manufacturer I was expecting, but a good thing that other manufacturers other than the usual suspects are showing interest. I disagree it is the wrong path as I have said before, if the BTCC wants to be a championship in it's own right in needs to be different. Use the same regs as the WTCC it just becomes a feeder.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

Well I think its pretty significant that Toyota have put some money (cars and hardware) and their name into the BTCC new-regs program.

A few weeks ago MG said they were also seriously looking at the BTCC with the new regs and I haven't heard of any new manufacturers jumping into S2000?

I guess as long as S2000 can be ran alongside the NGTC regs and have performance parity, then you could have the best of both worlds.

But it just looks as though the BTCC is going it alone again just like it did in 2001, whereas the rest of the world is sticking with S2000, which means that worldwide acceptance and adoption of the NGTC rules are unlikely. Though it may look like the NGTC rules are cheap, a works team will still have to develop a car around the rules, and if you only have 1 championship to enter it into, it makes less sense financially. So you could develop an S2000 car and enter it into 5-10 championships over the world, or go for NGTC, spend a bit less and enter it in 1, the BTCC.

[Valenok]

Originally Posted by AndyS

if the BTCC wants to be a championship in it's own right in needs to be different.

DTM has unique tech, but want to share it with some other series.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I guess as long as S2000 can be ran alongside the NGTC regs and have performance parity, then you could have the best of both worlds.

But it just looks as though the BTCC is going it alone again just like it did in 2001, whereas the rest of the world is sticking with S2000, which means that worldwide acceptance and adoption of the NGTC rules are unlikely. Though it may look like the NGTC rules are cheap, a works team will still have to develop a car around the rules, and if you only have 1 championship to enter it into, it makes less sense financially. So you could develop an S2000 car and enter it into 5-10 championships over the world, or go for NGTC, spend a bit less and enter it in 1, the BTCC.

But isn't it a fact that over the last few years the manufacturers have deserted S2000? I haven't heard of any new ones announcing plans to enter and next year BMW will probably reduce their involvement even further. So next year the WTCC will likely be left with just Chevvie as a manufacturer and some privately run BMW's & Seats and maybe a couple of Honda's run by a South American distributor. Not really in rude health is S2000?

So I don't blame the BTCC for going its own way when the reality is that S2000 is obviously dying on its feet. They probably needed to do something so that they didn't get dragged down with it.

[touringlegend]

Good that Toyota is providing a donor car and a bodyshell - a bare bodyshell is far more than some works teams have provided in the past I believe.

I can understand Alan Gow's thinking behind going it alone in terms of regulations. By the time 2013 comes (when S2000 are guaranteed to be allowed to) surely the economy will have picked up and we may see some more big name sponsors wanting to get involved, and maybe some manufacturers. I'm sure the BTCC already provides a good return on investment and with NGTC it should be even more attractive.

I think it was Ian Harrison that said recently the days of manufacturer funded teams are over and they will have to depend on sponsors, but with manufacturers providing technical assistance, a bit like Toyota have here.

[AndyS]

Originally Posted by Valenok

DTM has unique tech, but want to share it with some other series.

Nothing wrong with that and it may be that the BTCC may look at similar hook ups if possible, with who I'm not sure though at this stage.

[FIRE]

Time will tell if BTCC's choice is a good one.


Will this GPR Toyota available for customers?

[duke_toaster]

The thing with mentioning S2000 is are some of the series that are currently Super 2000 going to stay S2000? I know if I was running the Swedish series I'd at least hedge my bets by allowing both.

[bravo]

Wonder how much this is Toyota actually wanting to be involved in the sport and how much it's them just trying to rebuild their reputation. They dropped from F1 quickly enough.

I wonder how the drivers will cope if they have brake issues? I guess as per normal they can always use "the car ahead"

[medius]

Originally Posted by bravo

Wonder how much this is Toyota actually wanting to be involved in the sport and how much it's them just trying to rebuild their reputation. They dropped from F1 quickly enough.

I wonder how the drivers will cope if they have brake issues? I guess as per normal they can always use "the car ahead"

They have been looking at WRC too. I'd wager their F1 budget could fund BTCC, WTCC and WRC programs, just like the 1990s.

[Tim Wilkinson]

I may have misinterpreted, but aren't Toyota just providing a car and a shell? It doesn't mention anything about tech input. So Toyota's involvement is actually pretty limited - it makes sense though, to provide some relatively cheap parts, get someone else to build the car, and then have it appear at races and get in the "NGTC revolution is here!" photos.

I think that BTCC likes to go it's own way after the success of super-touring - leading the change wasn't necessary, but something needed to be done before the RS500s homologation ran out and BTCC was more reliant on that car than anywhere else. ST (Group 2) caught on through planning and circumstance - the first couple of years were propped up by M3s which were available in abundance. I hope NGTC does something similar, and lets privateers (who are now the real focus) be able to afford to run cars, just like ST attracted manufacturers.

[Sodemo]

After witnessing the NGTC engine in person for the first time at Silverstone yesterday I have to say its a bit of a mixed bag. The exhaust note is pretty loud and there are plenty of pops and bangs when shifting gear etc, but there is no real engine note as such like there is with S2000 and SuperTouring before that.

Having said that, if its going to be a cost effective way of going racing then that can only be a good thing. I was glad to see that Phil Glew's weekend went quite smoothly, for the first NGTC engine in a non-Vectra.

[gregc]

New artists impressions of the NGTC Avensis have been released - http://btcc.net/html/generalnews_detail.php?id=2113. I think it looks fantastic

[Speed-King]

I am not completely sold on the nose-job (looks a bit like the Cruze there, and I am not a big fan of that one), but otherwise it's pretty good.

[touring fan01]

Now thats a great looking car!

Better and more pictures here; http://www.touringcartimes.com/article.php?id=5250

[Speed-King]

Hmm, are those actually side-pipes???

[Craner Curves]

Looks like side exit pipes doesn't it. Don't know if that's more risky than putting them at the rear or not!

Great looking car, what a touring car should look like.

[FIRE]

Looks nice!

[nickyf1]

Very V8 supercar-ish! love it!

[I Rosputnik]

Awesome. I hope we get to see a few more interesting cars with these regs, maybe a C-Class or a Mondeo.

Hopefully once the restrictors have been removed in 2013 then things should be different.

[Matt]

They better shoot fire.

[Andrew Abbott]

As someone above has said, exactly what a touring car should look like! The low rear wing and slightly flared arches are good in my opinion, they make it look like a real racer.

The more spectacular a car is, the more 'showmanship' the sport feels like it has. And that attracts sponsors and fans.

I hope this is a good sign for the future of the BTCC.

[Sodemo]

Bigger wheels and smaller wings (than BTC cars) are where they needed to go visually.

I agree, it looks a lot nicer than I was expected I will grant them that.

[helterskelter]

If you look at the reactions to the new S2000 regulations and compare them with the reactions to first pictures of the NGTC car, you realize who's going into the right direction and who's wrong.
This car looks quite Superstars-ish, doesn't it?

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by helterskelter

If you look at the reactions to the new S2000 regulations and compare them with the reactions to first pictures of the NGTC car, you realize who's going into the right direction and who's wrong.
This car looks quite Superstars-ish, doesn't it?

I don't really feel there is much wrong with the S2000 regs visually, they look very much like the old super touring cars, albeit with smaller wheels. For me they look far more tasteful and proportional than the BTC cars that have appeared over the years.

I think John Cleland said it best when he stated that if the FIA were to run the ETCC to the national saloon cup regulations, that they were mad, and that the cars look like "rental cars". They needed to beef them up with bigger wheels, spoilers, make them cars that people want to aspire to.