Grand Am making its move, is it time for ALMS to make its move?

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

Hmm, I guess there was some movement. Funny how the Internet has much more of an impact than people seem to think.

I would say if there wasn't so much outrage about not Live TV of Laguna we wouldn't have streaming available this weekend.

Huh? Right, the internet precipitated this!!

Really, then why was there a Laguna stream, as there was no previous example to draw from?




L.P.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Huh? Right, the internet precipitated this!!

Really, then why was there a Laguna stream, as there was no previous example to draw from?

L.P.

I complained LOUDLY, just because I didn't post it on 10-Tenths doesn't mean jack shhh. I wasn't allowed to post here (2 year ban). I started complaining as soon as word got out that there would be no live broadcast on CBS and to add further insult it would be in Docu-Drama format.

So I emailed, spoke out on other forums, had long, drawn out debates on The Listener's Collective, between John and myself, Declan was well and anybody else that would listen. I am sure I wasn't the only one.

With no complaining there would not have been any streaming from Laguna Seca. With no outburst from the fans, Le Mans coverage would be just what you see on the linear channel and no streaming for those 6-8 hours they want to put NASCAR related programing on.

Are you assuming squeaky wheels don't get the most attention first?

I would be the first to say ALMS is basically Tone Deaf, but to say that my complaining about the lack of TV coverage was me shouting in the dead of night and nobody heard me is a bit of a stretch.

[JAG]

I looked on the GA board to see the response and there were a handful of posts in total.

no live broadcast on CBS and to add further insult it would be in Docu-Drama format.

Of course you want the race broadcast but I have to say the docu-drama approach is a clever way for endurance races to be covered on mainstream TV stations.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by JAG

I looked on the GA board to see the response and there were a handful of posts in total.



Of course you want the race broadcast but I have to say the docu-drama approach is a clever way for endurance races to be covered on mainstream TV stations.

Agreed. I liked it a lot and the stream was the best coverage I've ever seen. Best of both worlds.

[trahsub]

I gotta say, 2009's coverage of Laguna was breathtaking. All those helicopter views that showed the track elevation. Definitely my favorite coverage ever. . .

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

The Dauer was Porsche again reading the rulebook backward as well as forwards.

Look the ACO has allowed loopholes only OEM's can take advantage of.... If Hybrids become dominate the whole debate between pure petrol and alternatives will rage again...

I know that.

Doesn't mean I have to like it.

[Speed-King]

Looks like ALMS is smarter than I expected them to be:

Instead, IMSA is looking at adding a few new cars to GTC, but only if they conform to the performance baseline currently established in the category. Hypothetically speaking, in the case of the Audi, it could result in reverting to a V8 powerplant and the elimination of systems such as ABS or traction control.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Looks like ALMS is smarter than I expected them to be:

That has been the approach to the additions to GTC since it was first brought up over a year ago! I am glad to see that they have stayed on point with the philosophy though.




L.P.

[fieldodreams79]

Expanding GTC to other manufacturers? Great!

Now make sure both challenge classes a bit more pace.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

Expanding GTC to other manufacturers? Great!

Now make sure both challenge classes a bit more pace.

LMPC got a 10% restrictor break at Mid-O, and were faster compared to GT-2. I doubt they will speed up GTC as they have just as much speed as GT-2 on the straights!






L.P.

[chernaudi]

And Lane address a problem with letting FIA-homogated GT3s into the ALMS as of now. These are nearly as fast as the current GT2 cars, including the Audi R8 LMS, the Porsche 911 GT3 FIA-spec, the Corvette GT3 and the Viper Competition Coupe, all as homogated by the FIA in 2010.

The question is how would such cars be homogated by IMSA. IMSA, like the FIA, has performance ballancing. I don't think that IMSA really wants to speed up the Porsche 911 GT3 cup type cars, as they're nearly as fast as GT2 cars down the straights. What IMSA may do is slow the FIA GT3 cars, which Grand Am may have to do as right now they're nearly as fast as DPs and ALMS GT2 cars.

Take the Audi R8 LMS for example, since that's the car that a lot of people focus on. I say let them keep the 5.2 liter V10, but slap a smaller restrictor on in and have have Audi make available "budget package" version of it, with out the ABS and no ASR traction control or ALMS-spec TC (whatever the Porsche GT3 cup cars have if they have TC) and cheaper/less sophisicated electronics.

Not only would that help satify IMSA intentions of keeping the cars slower than GT2s and make performance ballancing easier, it would make the R8 LMS and other GT3 cars-which are nearly as expensive as GT2 cars-cheaper, which in the long run would satisfy Audi, Porsche, and others as their "GT3" cars would be more avialbile from a cost standpoint and can be upgraded to international/FIA GT3 specs by buying an electronics/air restrictor package and maybe the relevant wheels/tires and so on.

[rich07]

Watching Grand AM from Watkins Glen on the weekend, talking to Mark Patterson during the race, Speed mentioned that there were people pushing for the inclusion fo the R8 into GA GT (it was 1am over here so memory hazy-cant remember who said what).

Whats stopping someone from entering an R8 this year into GT?

[rdt012237]

Rich07- I watched yesterdays G/A race ,after the Mid-ohio stream and I believe the quote was " A lot of people have shown interest in them and you could see them here soon possibly next year" Speeds interviewer was asking about Patterson's drive in a R8 at the Spa 24 hour. The "here" I believe Patterson was refering to was G/A

[joeb]

Originally Posted by rich07

Watching Grand AM from Watkins Glen on the weekend, talking to Mark Patterson during the race, Speed mentioned that there were people pushing for the inclusion fo the R8 into GA GT (it was 1am over here so memory hazy-cant remember who said what).

Whats stopping someone from entering an R8 this year into GT?

I think we prolly will see a R8 next season in GA. Zac Brow from United Autosports has a vested interest in the GA series and he wants to run next year. I guess nobody is running this year because they would have to performance balance the car to gt standards since it would likely be quite a bit faster.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by rdt012237

Rich07- I watched yesterdays G/A race ,after the Mid-ohio stream and I believe the quote was " A lot of people have shown interest in them and you could see them here soon possibly next year" Speeds interviewer was asking about Patterson's drive in a R8 at the Spa 24 hour. The "here" I believe Patterson was refering to was G/A

That rings a bell. I think the R8 would be a good addition to GT but yeah some performance balancing would have to be done otherwise it would just run away into the distance.

Slightly OT-not a rotorhead but when there was 3 or 4 of the Mazdas together ontrack-that was music to the ears, it was like a wall of sound.

[JAG]

With only one ACO GT class it makes sense for Audi to produce a customer GTE car and a cheaper GT3 version.

The GTE car could still run at the Nurburgring/Spa 24hrs etc. but also in ACO races.

If Matech can get the Ford GT1 into GTE with few changes whats stopping the ACO allowing the R8 LMS or SLS into GTE?

[rdt012237]

Rich said-"Slightly OT-not a rotorhead but when there was 3 or 4 of the Mazdas together ontrack-that was music to the ears, it was like a wall of sound."
At G/A races I've attended even if you cant see around the corner, you know when one of those is coming!

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by JAG

whats stopping the ACO allowing the R8 LMS or SLS into GTE?

Not so much the ACO, but there's another reason Audi won't get officially into GTE: Porsche. GT3 is a big market, with around 250 cars running worldwide, so there's room for both. But with only 50 or so GT2/GTE cars being raced around the world (and I am probably a bit generous with that figure) the market gets crowded fairly soon which leads to less chances to recoup one's investments.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Looks like ALMS is smarter than I expected them to be:

Reading the blog post it seems they are concerned about straight line speed from some cars. I think the what Scott Elkins is saying they don't want to ask the current Porsche teams to dump their current Cup cars for brand new cars more than anything else.

I don't know if the BoP is really that big of a deal, in the case of Graf Racing and Callaway's own team, they are just putting better drivers in the cars... Only the Shubert Motorsports Z4's have equal talent across the board as well. Also Hexis AMR and Black Falcon Audi's. The rest of the teams are mix of not very good Bronze drivers and one Gold or Silver Driver.

They keep trying to claw back the Vettes and they keep winning. At some point you just have to say the team is just better. They have equalized the tires, the cars to a large degree and even pit stops and they still win = Better

Elkins is likely looking at the current Cup car and throwing up the trial balloon of Audi building a special R8 LMS just for the ALMS. Removing the ABS and Traction Control and using the original V8 engine? They already removed the AWD system from the car, taking away classic Audi marketing opportunities.

Porsche fought back by making the GT3-R. Now if Porsche can come up with an upgrade package to make a Cup car a GT3-R, that's cheaper than buying a new car, then why not nudge Porsche Motorsport NA to work on that, while you bring the Audi's over here straight away?

The factory prepped and ran Audi R8's are extremely quick. Blundell, Brown and Cheever both complained of lack of straight line speed. Of course that's been the general complaint of all the Audi teams in 2010. The BMW Z4 has a V8 engine but they went from the coupe version in 2009 to the hard top for 2010 and I believe is to get more area under the wing. That car has been really fast lately.

So I think the best course of action wouldn't be asking Audi to dumb down the R8, it should be updating the current Cup cars. I mean how come they can't make a deal with say 4-5 teams that will buy GT-3R's and give them a deep discount to go for the Manufactures Cup in GTC?

All they really have to do is put up a Manufactures Championship and the whole thing will sort itself out.

I think if GA allows the R8 LMS, they will keep it intact and don't you think Audi will just go where there's less trouble with changes and where the entire class might be FIA GT3 based by 2012?

Its time for ALMS to put up or shut up.

[Speed-King]

The only Porsche that might be upgradeable would be the 2010 Cup. The 2009 and earlier cars (which are right now the majority of the GTC-grid) are based on the regular GT3-roadcar body, whereas the 2010 Cup and the GT3 R are based on the GT3 RS-roadcar with the wider body and the white rear track.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

The only Porsche that might be upgradeable would be the 2010 Cup. The 2009 and earlier cars (which are right now the majority of the GTC-grid) are based on the regular GT3-roadcar body, whereas the 2010 Cup and the GT3 R are based on the GT3 RS-roadcar with the wider body and the white rear track.

And currently all but two cars are the 2010 models iirc.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

The only Porsche that might be upgradeable would be the 2010 Cup. The 2009 and earlier cars (which are right now the majority of the GTC-grid) are based on the regular GT3-roadcar body, whereas the 2010 Cup and the GT3 R are based on the GT3 RS-roadcar with the wider body and the white rear track.

I know Black Swan has a 2010 car, who else does? GMG?

The others could buy a new GT3-R or become a partner with Audi or BMW.

I don't think its much of a stretch for RLR to run Z4's in GT3 for some up and coming drivers or pay drivers.

I asked Callaway if they would be interested in building cars for the ALMS and they were nice enough to email me back and said sure, but they don't know what the future holds however.

I think the BoP is overblown, Holzer peddled car is just as fast as the others. But the Corvettes are likely the most sorted cars in the Championship along with the Lambos and Aston Martin.

Since the BMW, Porsche, Audi and Benz are coming directly off the line and built to order, these will be the approved cars. The question becomes if only 2-4 teams can update to GT3-R, what happens to the 5-6 other teams?

As I said before 911Werks and 911Extreme are both Porsche Service or Aftermarket companies, so they would likely buy new Porsche. I what new teams would run the other cars is largely the question.

I know Vici list being a Audi R8 LMS partner on its web site - http://www.viciracing.com/

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by joeb

And currently all but two cars are the 2010 models iirc.

Just from the top of my head: TRG and Orbit/Miller have 2009-spec Grand Am cars, AJR's #23 is a 2007-spec Grand Am car and GMG runs an older World Challenge chassis.

[Jonerz]

The 23 AJR car is a 2010 Porsche Cup Car. And the TRG/Orbit-Miller cars are 2008 GA GT cars with the 3.8 motors.

Chris

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

The 23 AJR car is a 2010 Porsche Cup Car. And the TRG/Orbit-Miller cars are 2008 GA GT cars with the 3.8 motors.

Chris

You sure that was always the case? I seem to remember the ALMS-#23 being the same car that ran as #23 at Daytona earlier this year...I always assumed that their only new cars were the two with the Mexican crews...

As I said before 911Werks and 911Extreme are both Porsche Service or Aftermarket companies, so they would likely buy new Porsche.

Similarly AJR, TRG and GMG are relatively closely related to Porsche, with at least the latter two also active in the aftermarket business.