Lance Stroll to Williams F1?

[Oldtony]

I found my hat rather indigestible and the sweatband has a nasty aftertaste.
But I was willing Mr Botas not to catch him because it was a very game effort by a level headed young man.

[Greem]

2nd or 3rd place still isn't a win though.

Pastor's still got one over him

[cds_uk]

He drove well, easily his best yet, but it was the very definition of a race of attrition, I am still a long way from convinced, Nelson Piquet jnr springs to mind at the moment.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

I found my hat rather indigestible and the sweatband has a nasty aftertaste.
But I was willing Mr Botas not to catch him because it was a very game effort by a level headed young man.

Yes, there was something rather sad about him being caught by a driver in a much faster car who lucked into a lap he really shouldn't have had......

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

More podiums than Le Mans winner and Renault headliner Nico Hulkenberg

Crikey! Good point.

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by Greem

Pastor's still got one over him

What an alarming thought!

[knighty]

Who wants to place a bet for Kubica replacing Stroll at some point during the season?......so Williams can clean out Stroll for as much $$$$ as possible, then put Kubica in, take his budget too, so he can score more points and do a better job that Stroll......and not to mention get the press fairy-tale story of bringing Kubica back into F1.

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by knighty

Who wants to place a bet for Kubica replacing Stroll at some point during the season?......so Williams can clean out Stroll for as much $$$$ as possible, then put Kubica in, take his budget too, so he can score more points and do a better job that Stroll......and not to mention get the press fairy-tale story of bringing Kubica back into F1.

Uh....no.

I will, however, bet against that. It ain't gonna happen that way.

[E.B]

I would bet against Kubica ever racing again. He might get a few FP1 rides, 'for the story/fairytale'.
As for driving their development, unlikely for a bloke who in William's words can't understand the tyres.

[Graz]

Originally Posted by knighty

Who wants to place a bet for Kubica replacing Stroll at some point during the season?......so Williams can clean out Stroll for as much $$$$ as possible, then put Kubica in, take his budget too, so he can score more points and do a better job that Stroll......and not to mention get the press fairy-tale story of bringing Kubica back into F1.

No chance. Lawrence Stroll effectively runs that team or at least has a very strong say. He obviously thinks Lance is ready to be the #1 or they would have put someone experienced in with him. Who knows, a bad year with 2 inexperienced (potentially poor) drivers may want Williams look to sell up or release further equity. Stroll F1 anyone...or Flatspot Racing perhaps...

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by knighty

Who wants to place a bet for Kubica replacing Stroll at some point during the season?......so Williams can clean out Stroll for as much $$$$ as possible, then put Kubica in, take his budget too, so he can score more points and do a better job that Stroll......and not to mention get the press fairy-tale story of bringing Kubica back into F1.

Do you think that multi-Billionaire Stroll could afford a decent lawyer to fight against such an obvious dodgy deal?

[Peter Mallett]

FWIW I dislike seeing Williams in the position they currently occupy so I hope Stroll does well this year. That said I don't believe Kubica is, or ever was, capable of being a consistent front runner, so there'd be no point IMHO in bumping Stroll for him even if he was fully fit. BTW this is the same feeling I had with Montoya and history tells me I was correct.

[peebee2]

Mr Stroll is a streetwise, smart operator. He’s not going to hand over massive sums without real control. And he could run rings round the “talent” running Williams.

He just has the one massive blind spot, like almost every other father, in seeing the real level of his son...

[Razzzor]

I'm going to be controversial (a bit of a troll?) and say Kubica was a bit overated imo. There were often times when Heidfeld would be faster. He cleaned him up in 2007. A guy that can't even win a race in 3 years of trying in FE, in what is clearly a very fast car. He'll be best known for his crash in the FE opening race, or his crash with Schumacher probably (I think he had a big one at some stage with Schumi didn't he?).

2008 Kubica was in the title picture for a while, a bit of luck, but in the end he was only 15 points ahead of Heidfeld. 2009 Heidfeld outscored him again. Actually here's an interesting stat in there time together as team mates

Heidfeld: 150 pts
Kubica: 137 pts

Points aren't everything, but for the guy that I read somewhere Autosport was it, were ranking Kubica as something like 25th greatest driver of all time... ? come on.

[Graz]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

I'm going to be controversial (a bit of a troll?) and say Kubica was a bit overated imo. There were often times when Heidfeld would be faster. He cleaned him up in 2007. A guy that can't even win a race in 3 years of trying in FE, in what is clearly a very fast car. He'll be best known for his crash in the FE opening race, or his crash with Schumacher probably (I think he had a big one at some stage with Schumi didn't he?).

2008 Kubica was in the title picture for a while, a bit of luck, but in the end he was only 15 points ahead of Heidfeld. 2009 Heidfeld outscored him again. Actually here's an interesting stat in there time together as team mates

Heidfeld: 150 pts
Kubica: 137 pts

Points aren't everything, but for the guy that I read somewhere Autosport was it, were ranking Kubica as something like 25th greatest driver of all time... ? come on.

On that logic, Kimi is a better driver than Ricciardo because he scored more points than him in 2017. And Bottas is better than say Max Verstappen...and how is Alonso in s drive at all....

You can dress up stats however you want. Heidfeld was a very good driver, nearly top drawer, not quite. Kubica was noticeably better just watching the comparison with my eyes.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

I'm going to be controversial (a bit of a troll?) and say Kubica was a bit overated imo. There were often times when Heidfeld would be faster. He cleaned him up in 2007. A guy that can't even win a race in 3 years of trying in FE, in what is clearly a very fast car. He'll be best known for his crash in the FE opening race, or his crash with Schumacher probably (I think he had a big one at some stage with Schumi didn't he?).

2008 Kubica was in the title picture for a while, a bit of luck, but in the end he was only 15 points ahead of Heidfeld. 2009 Heidfeld outscored him again. Actually here's an interesting stat in there time together as team mates

Heidfeld: 150 pts
Kubica: 137 pts

Points aren't everything, but for the guy that I read somewhere Autosport was it, were ranking Kubica as something like 25th greatest driver of all time... ? come on.

I'll agree with you here Razzzor and raise that I always felt that BMW's biggest problem in F1 was their driver selection.

[F1Guy]

Ah yes, stat's. Got to love the "stat's don't lie" crowd.

Next thing you know they'll be saying Michael Schumuncher was the best F1 driver of all time!

[Moneyseeker]

I've read some rumbling that Mercedes is looking closely at what Ferrari is doing with Sauber and potentially Haas in the future and is considering a closer 'alliance' with one of it's customer teams for the future, you would imagine the obvious candidate is FI (or whatever it will be called) as that is where Mercedes has both it's young drivers (Ocon and Russell), but perhaps TW has more of an infinity with Williams as a past shareholder. Could be a watch this space for 2019/20?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Graz

On that logic, Kimi is a better driver than Ricciardo because he scored more points than him in 2017. And Bottas is better than say Max Verstappen...and how is Alonso in s drive at all....

You can dress up stats however you want. Heidfeld was a very good driver, nearly top drawer, not quite. Kubica was noticeably better just watching the comparison with my eyes.

Well... the quick and dirty point analysis is not bad given Nick and Robert were on the same team (same equipment) while your examples are not (different equipment).

I think it would have been interesting, maybe even good, for F1 and Williams for Kubica to return next season. But, I agree Kubica is probably slightly overrated on this forum. He lives on here with the enduring myth of “what if” regarding his injury and early exit from F1. And I fully believe Heidfield was over rated as an F1 driver. Given the two roughly performed similarly as team mates doesn’t help Kubica’s ranking in my eyes.

Richard

[Graz]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Well... the quick and dirty point analysis is not bad given Nick and Robert were on the same team (same equipment) while your examples are not (different equipment).

I think it would have been interesting, maybe even good, for F1 and Williams for Kubica to return next season. But, I agree Kubica is probably slightly overrated on this forum. He lives on here with the enduring myth of “what if” regarding his injury and early exit from F1. And I fully believe Heidfield was over rated as an F1 driver. Given the two roughly performed similarly as team mates doesn’t help Kubica’s ranking in my eyes.

Richard

Focussing so on 2008;

Kubica out qualified Heidfeld 13:5 - quite a thrashing in the same car so unquestionably quicker and substantially so.

Beat him 11:7 in races where all sorts of variables come into it - RK had 2 DNF's, HF had none. RK had 6 podiums to HF's 4 (RK from less race finishes).

Kubica still beat him comfortably in the championship - 15 points referred to above is not 15 points today. The scoring system in '08 was 10 for a win down to 1 for 8th. 15 points equates to nearly 40 points in today's system - from 2 less race finishes too. And 3 less races compared to today to further extend that gap.

Heidfeld was a good driver and in his 9th season of F1 at this stage. At one point, he was considered as a McLaren driver before Kimi got it so he was no slouch. And he was considered good enough for the mighty works BMW effort. So, being in a large works effort, they should be well matched but in reality weren't and it wasn't even close.

Kubica was in his second full F1 season. He very clearly had the measure of Heidfeld who was a good driver, well regarded.

Those opining that Kubica wasn't very good are entitled to their views obviously but did you actually see his career or are you massaging stats to suit - e.g. 15 points difference looks relatively close until you consider the scoring system and equate it to today.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Graz

Those opining that Kubica wasn't very good are entitled to their views obviously but did you actually see his career or are you massaging stats to suit - e.g. 15 points difference looks relatively close until you consider the scoring system and equate it to today.

Lol at Massaging stats.... you chose the only year out of three that Kubica beat Heidfeld.
You mention Kubica had two DNS that year.... yes he did. One a spin the other a collision.
And lets not forget Kubica's sole GP win was 'won' thanks to Team orders asking Heidfeld to pull over whilst leading for Kubica to pass which he did without question. Yes different pit strategies but Kubica only won due to Nick's kindness,

[Greem]

So anyway, about Stroll...

[BSchneiderFan]

Before we leave the matter, let’s not forget that the Spaniard, no slouch (though I am not a fan), rated Kubica “the best of us all”.

[S griffin]

The collision was not Kubica’s fault, he was hit from behind by Nakajima on a SC restart, while the spin was during a heavy downpour, while on intermediates. Heidfeld was no slouch, witness his finishing record in 08, but when BMW ended development on the car, there were races where he tended to be invisible, whereas Robert was pushing the maximum of the car, which sometimes would only reward him with a point or two. Overrated Kubica my foot. 2010 proved how good he was

[F1Guy]

Some comments from people who know Kubica a bit better than the tentenths F1 forum.


Lewis Hamilton: "Robert's one of the quickest drivers I've ever raced against.

"If he was still racing he'd be up in contention for the world title if not have won one. Just raw natural talent which in the sport is a shame we don't have here with us.

"Not a lot of great, great drivers come through. It filters and then filters down, you have some that are much better than the rest but then still not the greatest. Then you have real special drivers like him."


Nico Rosberg: "Lewis and Robert are the fastest guys I ever raced against, so when Robert asked me, it was an easy decision – because I know how fast he is, better than anyone else."


Fernando Alonso: "When the go-karts were the same, when the smaller categories, you run with the same single-seater, with the same car, he was beating all the generation that are winning now. So I think he's the best."


This article from July 2017 is a good read too...

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/124...worth-the-wait