How can we improve British F3?

[BarryCrocker]

Good point, maybe they can show the F3 race live??

[Mr Jinxx]

With respect, BarryCrocker, I don't think I've missed the point at all.

I wonder how many of the British F3 drivers on the grid today are funded by the sponsors who see a massive return in getting in with the right driver at this early(ish) stage of his career, or whether they have funds from friends/family/business contacts.

Why? Because F1 isn't about being the best driver any more. It's about being the right nationality to fit with the right manufacturer today. About being the right colour or sexual persuasion or whatever fad is next on the list. And BF3 is no longer on that route, it is relying too much on just your stated opinion - the establishment bit - and it cannot afford to do that these days. Time has moved on, and it hasn't. Unless it recognises that fact, and "ups" the show considerably, it will fall by the wayside. Live TV. Faster cars. More glamour. Hospitality. With the right series/cars to get the crowds. More bang for your sponsors' buck. More PR. etc etc

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by Mr Jinxx


Why? Because F1 isn't about being the best driver any more. It's about being the right nationality to fit with the right manufacturer today. About being the right colour or sexual persuasion or whatever fad is next on the list.

Slighty harsh.

I'd say it's about being the best driver who also meets the other criteria.

[Mr Jinxx]

Slightly true, K-B, I guess! But you know what I was getting at. I've told you a million times not to exaggerate, Mr Jinxx.

I was thinking Baumgartners and Kliens and that sort of thing. I'm thinking that Anthony Davidson, for example, could kick their butts any day, but he hasn't got any money to bring, so he wasn't first choice.

[Russfeld]

Klien is the perfect situation though. An accomplished junior driver with an enthusiastic and loyal sponsor. Without Red Bull we'd be complaining he never got a chance.

[Mr Jinxx]

Just like the lottery, of course

[Kicking-back]

I don't think it's fair to compare Klien and Baumgartner.

And I'd much rather be in Davidson's situation that Zsolt's.

[Mr Jinxx]

Which is not a venture a commercial sponsor would choose to throw a lot of money at

(A preposition is something you should never end a sentence with)

[Kicking-back]

Financially, the lottery is selling fifty pences at one pound a go.

[sceptic]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
I don't think it's fair to compare Klien and Baumgartner.

And I'd much rather be in Davidson's situation that Zsolt's.

Oh I don't know, there must be some advantages to being a national hero as the first person from your country to reach F1 (post war at least).

And having a dad who runs the largest Renault franchise in the country can't be bad either.

[sceptic]

Originally posted by Mr Jinxx
Which is not a venture a commercial sponsor would choose to throw a lot of money at

(A preposition is something you should never end a sentence with)

LOL.

Out of interest, if Jinxx Jnr does what is suggested in the press this week, how much of that "car" is his to sell, and how much is reserved for team or championship sponsors?

How does that compare with F3, which doesn't have a title sponsor?

[Mackmot]

If it cost X amount to run a car and the team find Y amount of sponsorship and the driver pays Z then the driver will generally get Z/X x 100% and the team Y/X x 100%. However if the either the team or driver has a patron behind them who is not interested in advertising then their space will be used to keep other sponsors happy.

Simple

[Mackmot]

Oh yeah and the championships take what they want, superfund have the airbox

[sceptic]

Originally posted by Mackmot
If it cost X amount to run a car and the team find Y amount of sponsorship and the driver pays Z then the driver will generally get Z/X x 100% and the team Y/X x 100%. However if the either the team or driver has a patron behind them who is not interested in advertising then their space will be used to keep other sponsors happy.

Simple

It's not quite that simple though, because it doesn't cost a set amount to run a car.

And for a driver like Alex who is a dead cert to win races, surely the team is going to accept slightly less than they would from a well-backed journeyman with a habit of needing a new front wing every session.

[Pete Fenelon]

Originally posted by BarryCrocker
Jinxy, You seem to be missing the point. British F3 is an established route to Formula 1. The return for a potential sponsor is massive by getting in with the right driver early in his career. And believe me all the F1 bosses watch BF3 because they know there is favouritism in the Euroseries.

British F3 was the route to F1 and/or CART for many years -- in the modern era, particularly between the end of the Euro F3 series in '85 and (roughly) the turn of the century. Even then, the British series was stronger (usually) than the Euro one, and some domestic series (particularly France) were relatively minor.

I've never done the stats, but it seemed like about half a dozen drivers a year went onwards and upwards from British F3 in the 80s/90s - combine that with a few from the Italian scene, a couple from France and Germany, a couple direct from South America and the odd North American or Antipodean and you've got a crop of about 20 rookies to top up F3000, CART and F1.

But the scene is smaller now and the guys at the top are staying there longer. Whereas you used to be able to predict with a reasonable degree of confidence that an F3 champ would be in F1 within a couple of years, you just can't do that now!

Look at it this way - between 1968 and 1991, the only F3 champions not to make an appearance in F1 were Ian Taylor and Andy Wallace (a criminal loss to single-seaters, and I know March thought Andy was excellent and would've loved to run him in F1). Sadly Stephen South's F1 career was cut short, but at least he got to attempt to qualify for a GP...)

From there on?

De Ferran - chose an alternative career path.
Burt - cracking driver, I thought he had what it takes, but apart from flirtations with Jordan (the team not the model) it never happened for him.
Magnussen - ok, got into F1, but was canonised by JYS and it destroyed him
Ollie Gavin - came close to F1 with Pacific, but...
Ralph Firman - got there, but took him 7 years...
Jonny Kane - good, but... I just don't see him in F1, does anyone else?
Mario Haberfeld - mediocre in F3000, mediocre in CART/OWRS.
Marc Hynes - doesn't seem touched by greatness to me...
Pizzonia - potentially great driver who was destroyed by the mess at Jaguar, IMHO...
Sato - well, hey - a potential GP winner! - first one since Rubens!
Robbie Kerr I'd love to see go further but he never seems to have the £££££...
Alan van der Merwe - yes, seems to have the Right Stuff, but I don't see F1 teams flocking to sign him up....

The last decade or so shows that the "ladder" has splintered - the field below F1 is so fragmented, and F1 is so static these days, that even F3 champions can't get a decent crack of the whip in F1. It's hard to sell a series with the recent record British F3 has as a stairway to heaven.

Now how about this for a dream?

- look at BAR - Davidson, Sato and Button are all BF3 alumni.

- Honda isn't really represented on the UK national racing scene.

Once BAR win a GP - and it'll happen this year, I hope and believe, both F3 and Honda are in a brilliant position to say that "look, BAR did this with drivers who grew up in British F3". Wouldn't it be nice if Honda took the series under their wing? Used their image to promote the "Honda British F3 Championship"? OK, it would probably mean going to a control-engine formula, but who'd complain about having to run Mugens? Offer a cast-iron BAR testing contract to the winner, offer career advice, maybe even a couple of IRL tests. Really present it as part of a ladder - by ensuring that there's some rungs above it - at the moment drivers are climbing the ladder and falling off into a void!

Yes, it means our F3 becomes a bit "one-make"-ised, but does the average punter even know who makes F3 engines?

I dunno - this came to me as I was dozing in the back of a car on the way home from Donington, maybe the sun got to me