So where will JV be in relation to Alonso in China?

[ASCII Man]

He did do something, he finished the race.
At least it's not spinning off at T1, bumping another driver and getting a tyre puncture.

[QuickSilver]

Peter,
Could it be possible - just possible - that Flav brought JV in because he didn't have any other option. He canned Trulli and needed a pilot. Sure it'd be nice if he gets a few points but JV is in that seat because the only other option was to park it. Flav can't come out and say that so he puts a spin on the story that JV the hero was brought in to outscore BAR. Pffft! Get real.
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(and don't believe everything you read).
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by the way, 10,000 posts, yowza! ... do you get a ride in a two-seater for that many posts?

[jhansen]

So Renault brought in JV because there were no other choices and decided to bow out of the race for 2nd in the constructor's race? I don't think so!!! Reality check, the stakes are high for BAR and Renault. Flav knows it and made a decision to bring in JV. If they didn't care about the second car scoring points why did they sack Trulli???

No, I disagree, JV was hired to score points and overtake BAR. Period.

[acf8181]

Originally posted by QuickSilver
Peter,
Could it be possible - just possible - that Flav brought JV in because he didn't have any other option. He canned Trulli and needed a pilot. Sure it'd be nice if he gets a few points but JV is in that seat because the only other option was to park it. Flav can't come out and say that so he puts a spin on the story that JV the hero was brought in to outscore BAR. Pffft! Get real.

thats a fair comment...though they could have put montagny in, but JV was the best option available.

i also think trulli would have done no better.

[joe rossi]

Originally posted by QuickSilver
different perspective:
i'm a 4 handicap and if i didn't play golf for an entire year (except for using my dad's clubs at goodwood) i would be pretty rusty.
i could train and hit the range, but until i actually played i wouldn't know.
okay my first round out would be pretty lacklustre and i would have to think about every shot - overthink even. my second round would improve and third even better. after a few rounds i'd find my old form and muscle memory would take over. once my instincts were back i could get down to a 4 relatively quickly.
give jv a chance - and hey, i'm not that big a fan, i'm just realistic about what we can expect. an f1 pilot's reactions have to be lightning quick and it'll come back given enough RACING laps.
he's already proven himself, now he just has to do it again.
give the lad a chance.
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This is the whole point, give the lad a chance? what chance? there's only two races left! As Peter says, he has 3 shots and has blown the first. It just shows the whole folly of standing down Trulli and putting in a rusty replacement. Trulli may well have ended 11th, but then again he has also stuck it on pole twice this year. Ok the Renault wasn't the best car this weekend, but it was better than 11th, as Alonso showed. Jv would have been much better off staying out this season and getting loads of winter testing in the Sauber. At the minute he looks like a has been, running around the back getting in the way.

[SKT]

JV was pretty close in qualifying - .867 secs. This certainly wasn't a good race for JV.

From the in car camera shots I saw from the race feed, JV seemed to be struggling with the car - the set just wasn't right.

Testing in Silverstone proved that JV was on pace - in hindsight, the best would have been to pass on the Renault offer, and test heavily during the winter with Sauber.

FM, qualified 4th with the Sauber, and so it proves that the Sauber can be competitive.

After a 1 year hiatus, and limited testing, JV has painted himself in a corner. Hopefully, Suzuka will prove otherwise however, it will be difficult indeed.

This will be JV's toughest haul yet - mentally and physically.

Also, as a side bar, it doesn't seem that JV is Left Foot braking -TV telemetry shows this to be true. Oddly enough, of all the telemetry shown on TV from KR and MS, only MS was shown to be left foot braking.

I'm a JV fan however, it certainly looks bleak. JV needs a pole and/or victory in Japan to wipe the slate totally clean.

[Kirk]

Originally posted by SKT
From the in car camera shots I saw from the race feed, JV seemed to be struggling with the car - the set just wasn't right.

In fact the Speed channel guys were commenting on this ... and how much more stable Webber was in the Jag. They were both in the same camera shot for long enough to compare. Perhaps we should talk a little more about how Renault let it's drivers down. It's a 2 way street.

Originally posted by SKT
[BI'm a JV fan however, it certainly looks bleak. JV needs a pole and/or victory in Japan to wipe the slate totally clean. [/B]

Balderdash, what slate? JV will race his ass off for Renault but these races and laps are an excellent way for him to get into the Sauber in November and be F1 fit and ready to go.

[Wrex]

Originally posted by ASCII Man
He did do something, he finished the race.
At least it's not spinning off at T1, bumping another driver and getting a tyre puncture.

You forgot to mention just wrapped up 7th WDC. Ooops, you are talking about Michael here are'nt you?

Nice try on the diversion mate, but this thread is'nt about Michael is it? (btw, I agree his was an even worse performance though).

I think the problem here is what a real expectations of JV, and what he is getting a pay cheque for.

The problem is, while its reasonable to expect JV to set the pace he has so far, his sole purpose of being brought in is to get points, and prevent BAR from getting them.

On that score, and the only one the matters IMO, he failed. They could have slotted a test driver in to come 11th, but 11th is'nt what they need.

That said, one race is no where near enough to judge JV overall, and I'm positive he will be much faster in the coming races. Just a poor debut, thats all.

[Alan Jones]

I disagree Wrex, when you consider this is JV's first race this year, and the time he has had in the car, i thought he did a great job. Didn't bend it, and finished the race.Not a bad debut at all IMO.

[spider]

I disagree, he didn't do a great job. His job is, as Wrex states, to come into the team and rack up points for Renault - which Trulli wasn't able to do. I don't blame JV, Flav should, IMO slotted Montagny into the race drive for China, allowing JV more time to get used to the car.

Flav took a gamble, and maybe it won't pay off. I still feel that JV should have been closer to the pace than he was, regardless of how short a time he had in the car, he still had 2 days, and a full Friday and Saturdays running - I wasn't expecting him to beat Alonso, but I did kind of feel that he would perform stronger than he did. After all, it was less than a year away from the cockpit...

I'm sure he'll be stronger in Japan, but BAR will take 2nd in the Championship.

[QuickSilver]

I'm sure he'll be stronger in Japan, but BAR will take 2nd in the Championship.

spider ... absolutely agree. i wouldn't be parking too much blame at jv's door. this is flav's strategy and anyone who expected poles & podiums is just kidding themselves.

we can and should expect jv to score points in japan. whether that's more or less than sato is another question.
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[sonic]

agree too - mission not accomplished. 17th fastest race time is a pretty poor effort.

If an F1 'new boy' like Pizza put in a perfomance like JV his future would be in serious doubt.

realistically the only real benifit to Renault having him in the car is that Flav won't have to put up with a moody Trulli who has got the arse because of the way Flav treated him in the first place.

[ASCII Man]

Well, i mostly agree.
It was an average effort, at best.

But i would place the most blame on Flavio, who should've put Montagny, or maybe even Bourdais if he was available in the car with JV testing and getting familiar with the car, as spider said earlier.

But i would expect him to finish in the points for the next 2 races.

[climb]

Very cautious of a prediction for an ASCII one

[Glen]

Wildly ambitious prediction, according to the judgement of his first race.

[Peter Mallett]

*snigger*

Glen, unless you get with the programme and start lauding JV's brilliant drive to er eleventh, we'll think you don't like motor racing.

[Glen]

I see Alonso has given him a "ten" - although he neglected to specify what the score was out of. Perhaps he meant per cent.

[spider]

Originally posted by Glen
I see Alonso has given him a "ten" - although he neglected to specify what the score was out of. Perhaps he meant per cent.

[joe rossi]

Originally posted by ASCII Man

But i would place the most blame on Flavio, who should've put Montagny, or maybe even Bourdais if he was available in the car with JV testing and getting familiar with the car, as spider said earlier.

This is getting even more ridiculous! Montagny or Bourdais? what planet are you on? Montagny has never raced before and Bourdais has hardly even driven an F1 car! Keep JV testing..until when? next March? THERE ARE ONLY TWO RACES LEFT. As everyone keeps stating..he was bought in to do a job, and he's failing to do that job.

Flav took a massive gamble and it isn't paying off so far. As I said in an earlier post, he should have re-built his bridges with Trulli and they would have both won from the situation. Trulli would still be racing and Renault would have a much better shot at 2nd place. It won't happen now unless BAR seriously screw up, and I can't see that happening.

[ASCII Man]

Thanks for insulting me when i just stated my opinion...

[joe rossi]

Originally posted by ASCII Man
Thanks for insulting me when i just stated my opinion...

I wasn't insulting you, but surely you must agree that the thought of putting Montagny or Bourdais in the car is a little bit strange, when even JV is struggling to get on terms with it. As I said, they need a point scoring driver..how could Montagny or Bourdais ever be considered when both have zero experience?

[Glen]

At least Montagny might have an idea about how to set the car up, and how to get the best out of the tyres. All Jacques' racing experience didn't help him overtake the much slower Jaguar - I assume that was primarily down to lack of familiarity with the car and tyres.

They've got find that missing speed somehow, that's for sure. My Nan's might be persuaded. Sorry - couldn't help it.

[garcon]

Let's not get over heated chaps...

[Peter Mallett]

Originally posted by ASCII Man
Thanks for insulting me when i just stated my opinion...

Always a pleasure.

Now for the real stuff. Whilst in Francorchamps two weeks ago I was forced to sup a particularly virulent form of pleasure. Cuvee Du Francorchamps. I recommend at least four bottles and a darkened room for the Japanese GP.

It was good btw.

[Tony Fast]

I can't wait for Japan, Just to see Jacques sail through the pack like a weasel in a chicken coop. Never forget JV is still one of the finest in F1 today.