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13 Jul 2015, 20:54 (Ref:3558318) | #1251 | ||
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Personally, I would love to see a low-downforce Formula One. However, fans and drivers already complain about the cars being not very demanding physically.
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'Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines.' - Enzo Ferrari |
13 Jul 2015, 21:26 (Ref:3558330) | #1252 | ||||
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I like a good Indycar race. Watched for years (good TV coverage allowing).
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It would tackle a lot of F1's problems. Freedom in regulations. No pay drivers. No fuel saving. No silly engine limit penalties. Good looking cars. No double points. No comedy tyre compound rules. Oh wait ... [/sarcasm] I particularly like the fuel saving comparison. It is massive in Indycar, as it is in NASCAR and also, it a subtlety different way, WEC. It's only evil in F1 though. Last edited by Adam43; 13 Jul 2015 at 21:35. |
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13 Jul 2015, 23:12 (Ref:3558345) | #1253 | ||
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So I don't think that the physicality of driving one of these cars is that much of an issue. Last edited by wnut; 13 Jul 2015 at 23:34. |
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13 Jul 2015, 23:42 (Ref:3558350) | #1254 | |||
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Bernie's always disliked AOWR, so much so he tried to prevent the FIA from issuing Super Licenses to CART drivers, who didn't have one. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119938 |
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14 Jul 2015, 00:43 (Ref:3558354) | #1255 | ||
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It is just the complaint that Formula One drivers are 'built like 13 year old girls', because the current breed of cars allow them and that such should be changed.
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'Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines.' - Enzo Ferrari |
14 Jul 2015, 01:19 (Ref:3558363) | #1256 | ||
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To rank Indycar as anything but second to F1 is just a complete joke! Indylights should be right up there too! |
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14 Jul 2015, 01:22 (Ref:3558364) | #1257 | |
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14 Jul 2015, 12:50 (Ref:3558475) | #1258 | ||
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'Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines.' - Enzo Ferrari |
14 Jul 2015, 13:40 (Ref:3558496) | #1259 | ||
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But are we talking high G speeds with high aero, or are we talking about drivers struggling with a low downforce car, because both will "tire" and test a driver, but in a different way.
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14 Jul 2015, 13:50 (Ref:3558499) | #1260 | |
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It is a curious thing but the slower the class (as a general rule) the better the racing. Formula V which is slower again is edge of the seat stuff as well. It is a function of time over distance covered, the quicker the cars the harder it is to actually race rather than just follow. This has been discussed before but the "experts" don't get it.
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14 Jul 2015, 14:53 (Ref:3558519) | #1261 | ||
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but is not the different talent and experience levels in the lower formulas also a factor in those series providing 'better' racing?
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Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place |
14 Jul 2015, 15:10 (Ref:3558521) | #1262 | |||
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Having said that, with powerful engines Formula One is in need of a certain amount of downforce. Without it the cars would simply be uncontrollable. From a normative point of view downforce is also desirable or even a necessity. Without downforce lap times improve when a car is in the wake of another. Consequently, cars naturally close up and a slower car could thus easily pass a faster one. |
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14 Jul 2015, 16:18 (Ref:3558538) | #1263 | |
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I find this discussion about drivers body shapes and sizes and "physicality" funny. Given the duration of the races and the G-loads, I expect they are all quite fit. I think I have read the phrase "wanting the cars to be more physical to drive". What exactly does that mean? Do you want it to be physically harder to turn the wheel or push the pedal or what?
My definition is that it should be harder to turn a fast lap. However I expect that to be a mostly mental exercise and less physical. However it might require more "motion" of the body to do so (more steering corrections than if you are on a rail and holding a smooth line). As to all of the talk about what I generally view as "retro" or "vintage" style requests for what F1 should be like, I also just have a hard time getting that "from the perspective of creating a top tier series". I love vintage racing and other series, but it can never be the future. It seems the wish list is... * Manual transmissions * Manual clutches * Small or no wings * large tires * No driver aids * No electronics * No communications with the pits * Large "manly" drivers * Large and loud internal combustion engines. If I was a better artist I would create an F1 version of Rat Fink as that is what I think some are asking for!!! Richard |
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14 Jul 2015, 16:23 (Ref:3558540) | #1264 | |
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14 Jul 2015, 17:13 (Ref:3558549) | #1265 | ||
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Mr. Casto, I'm totally not arguing with you whatsoever; merely raising a point (that just happened to strike me when I saw your quote) that the line will inevitably have to be drawn, so does it really matter where, as long as the racing is good? |
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14 Jul 2015, 17:21 (Ref:3558550) | #1266 | |
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At some point motorsports will be so different that we will not be able to recognize it when compared to today. I absolutely agree with that. I also agree with most if not all of your other points.
I do think that "good racing" is the generally the core from a fan perspective, but I also think F1 is having an identify crisis. It has not always been about "technology" (but that has always been a strong component). It has been (or been perceived to be) the top of the heap. It has to stand out from the others and IMHO, creating a vintage series is not the answer. Now, I do think it would be interesting to create some type of vintage series in which you create new cars that use limited technology, but I just have a hard time saying that will every be F1. Richard |
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14 Jul 2015, 18:12 (Ref:3558566) | #1267 | |
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I'd just be happy with single element wings, and an H-pattern gearshifter, so you know, they can miss a gear every once in a while.
But apparently making things a little harder for the drivers is just old fashioned wishful thinking that has no place in F1. |
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14 Jul 2015, 19:10 (Ref:3558580) | #1268 | ||
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No matter how many driver's aids you throw at a car, seems a traditional gearshift would go a long way to counter their advantages. Maybe an analog-ish looking (or at least no colored LED's) tachometer as well, so no "optimum shift point" nonsense. How many times did we hear the excuse back in the day about a notchy shifter or some such thing? And who cares if it was legit or if they just missed shifts? It's an unpredictable performance variable. God bless unpredictable performance variables. |
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14 Jul 2015, 20:32 (Ref:3558603) | #1269 | |
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You guys are killing me! Rat Fink I am telling you . Vintage F1 (Quick, I need to trademark "V1")
Seriously, I am all for making the cars less easy to drive. IMHO we just need more creativity than reverting to 1970s tech (i.e. manual H pattern gears) to do that. I respect everyone's opinions, but I can joke about this as it is such a bad idea it will never happen. Richard |
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14 Jul 2015, 21:05 (Ref:3558615) | #1270 | ||
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If only F1 drivers were as fit as Indycar drivers.
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14 Jul 2015, 21:53 (Ref:3558626) | #1271 | ||
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Or drivers from the '70s.
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14 Jul 2015, 22:49 (Ref:3558635) | #1272 | |||
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14 Jul 2015, 22:58 (Ref:3558636) | #1273 | |||
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Things will continue as they are until the FIA, or whoever is in charge in the future, decides there's no point in racing cars with an internal combustion engine. |
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15 Jul 2015, 01:23 (Ref:3558662) | #1274 | ||
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15 Jul 2015, 14:07 (Ref:3558768) | #1275 | |||
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However, the race used to exhaust drivers severely. It is said this is no longer the case. The drivers' fitness seems to better than actually necessary. And that is exactly why some complain: they consider Formula One drivers as athletes and there want to see faster cars, exhausting drivers to the extreme. Do not get me wrong: I think making Formula One continuously faster is a dead end. Sooner or later the cars simply become too fast for the human body to bear the forces. Safety and health mandate a limit to be set. And as soon as such a limit is set, it will become easier for other - feeder - series to get by. That is the very reason why GP2 is no longer that much slower than Formula One. |
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