IMSA Race 2016 Rolex 24 at Daytona

[BullMan]

One issue Daytona has is that there are "race state" lights on the fence all along the NASCAR portion of the circuit.

If you watch the on-board replays of the DW incident, you'll see the green light at stat/finish, then another green light between s/f and turn 1. Apparently, those NASCAR lights are all or nothing, so they couldn't just turn that one yellow. That light is at or just before the braking point for many cars, so if a car didn't know there was a problem in front of him, he's not going to do anything differently. The first yellow light was after the stalled car.

[kyoung]

Originally Posted by Accident

Silly comments in my opinion. Look through the GTLM field and find me one car (aside from Scuderia Corse obviously, since they are new to the class) run by any of the teams that hasn't given someone a nudge or ran someone wide over the last handful of years. Funny that when a yellow car does it everyone seems to get real worked up.

Curious what your thoughts are on Porsche's golden boy Tandy, after the way he ran the Risi car off the road and then Auberlen (twice was it?) at Laguna Seca a few years back? Don't remember many people too terribly upset about that.

"Scum" off the track because you think they were playing the BoP game? While it seems that excessive sandbagging is probably pretty difficult with the systems IMSA is using, you would be kidding yourself if you think any other team wasn't trying to do the same thing.

Seeing as how you most likely don't know the state of the setups on the vehicles at the end, or what sort of condition the cars were all in, looking at some data available to the public isn't likely to lead to anything terribly concrete given there are plenty of variables at play.

The Porsche tactic of squat and squirt invites this sort of contact. Whenever Porsche goes defensive the tendency is to squat in the corner to burn off any momentum the trailing car has and then squirt out of the corner using their superior rear traction to gain some breathing room. I don’t blame Porsche for using the tactic, it’s perfectly acceptable along with the understanding that the trailing car is going to try and keep as much momentum as they can. In this particular instance Bamber made a mistake and went wide leaving what looked like room on the inside for Gavin. I thought it, the announcers thought it and in that split second Gavin thought it too. You would have to be a total Porsche homer to think that Gavin intentionally rammed the Porky. That said, I let out a huge UGH! when it happened because I knew there would be crying and gnashing of teeth from the Porsche camp. The Vette was the better car at that point in the race and would have won anyway. I can’t believe people are calling for BoP on any car in GTLM, for all that’s holy leave them alone; there is nothing between them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zSyXM4y_zQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyGNt8K7VR0

[skycafe]

Here is a video too. Note how long that PC car is there and how many other cars get past, plus you can clearly see the waved yellow and that the flagman is illuminated. Apparently the pc car spun on entry and stalled there.

https://youtu.be/iWfZvxfofxE

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by skycafe

It seems to be common now to stop on or next to the racing surface when the car goes 'pfft' Seemingly to cause a FCY and get rescued without losing too much time. I have no idea, nor have I heard why that PC was stationary in the first corner, pretty much on the racing line. It seems odd. Did he spin and end up stalled there? Apparently the engine was running when he was hit, but I don't know if it had been before, and the driver had to recycle everything to get running again and get moving, but the Deltawing just got there too soon. I am not blaming the PC, just speculating. If that car had just trundled to a stop there it must have been going fairly slow in the tri-oval, which would have been cause for yellow corner flags too. Weird situation all around.

After seeing the youtube video of this incident and the situation, I was clearly wrong about how this incident happened. It is most certainly the Deltawing driver's fault. Shame he hurt another team's chances in the process.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by skycafe

Here is a video too. Note how long that PC car is there and how many other cars get past, plus you can clearly see the waved yellow and that the flagman is illuminated. Apparently the pc car spun on entry and stalled there.

https://youtu.be/iWfZvxfofxE

Thank you, best evidence so far!

Only 27 (!) cars managed to pass the stricken PC car before the DW runs into him.

Stop defending this Maldonado move please.

I'm hopeful we won't see Meyrick back for Sebring.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Thank you, best evidence so far!

Only 27 (!) cars managed to pass the stricken PC car before the DW runs into him.

Stop defending this Maldonado move please.

I'm hopeful we won't see Meyrick back for Sebring.

I thought so at the time and it still beggars belief, how everyone else managed to avoid the stationary PC, except for Meyrick.

[fergus_r]

I was at the tri-oval when the two Lambo's collided, must admit...they'd been building that up for a while...

[Richard C]

I enjoyed the race. I watched a mixture of live and recorded. I haven't seen the corvette bump and run pass yet at the end, so no comment on that.

The DW crash... A LOT of cars made it past the stalled PC car. But as I watched it I kept wondering where the FCY was and that eventually luck was going to run out and that someone was going to hit the PC car. I expect it to be more of a situation with heavy traffic and someone goes left or right and a car directly behind would have no time to avoid.

Given the yellow (and Meyrick should know the location of the flag stand and be watching for it) the DW was going too fast. Who knows if he couldn't hear his spotter or not. Also he had a good bit of gap between him and the cars in front of him. So he should have seen the stalled car before he apparently did. I am puzzled why he didn't adjust his line to be wider and go on the outside. Target fixation? I put is down to a mixture of driver error and lack of FCY that set the stage. An unfortunate accident that was avoidable on more than one level.

Richard

[optica]

Originally Posted by skycafe

After seeing the youtube video of this incident and the situation, I was clearly wrong about how this incident happened. It is most certainly the Deltawing driver's fault. Shame he hurt another team's chances in the process.

Interesting comment when the DW was clearly in the running for a decent result and someone else chose to park their car in the middle of a corner.

[ATLFalconsFAN]

Originally Posted by skycafe

Here is a video too. Note how long that PC car is there and how many other cars get past, plus you can clearly see the waved yellow and that the flagman is illuminated. Apparently the pc car spun on entry and stalled there.

https://youtu.be/iWfZvxfofxE

That video absolutely confirms my suspicion. Completely, utterly inexcusable that a full course caution was not called prior to that accident. That was COMPLETELY avoidable!

IMHO it's a bit of overcompensation for their previous eagerness to throw the yellow flag. Hopefully now we'll find a reasonable middle ground.

[Fogelhund]

How is it that the DW's team spotter wasn't letting him know about the parked car? How is it so many cars got by, but he didn't... after seeing the video, I can't see how this isn't the teams fault, and/or the driver.

[gert]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I enjoyed the race. I watched a mixture of live and recorded. I haven't seen the corvette bump and run pass yet at the end, so no comment on that.

The DW crash... A LOT of cars made it past the stalled PC car. But as I watched it I kept wondering where the FCY was and that eventually luck was going to run out and that someone was going to hit the PC car. I expect it to be more of a situation with heavy traffic and someone goes left or right and a car directly behind would have no time to avoid.

Given the yellow (and Meyrick should know the location of the flag stand and be watching for it) the DW was going too fast. Who knows if he couldn't hear his spotter or not. Also he had a good bit of gap between him and the cars in front of him. So he should have seen the stalled car before he apparently did. I am puzzled why he didn't adjust his line to be wider and go on the outside. Target fixation? I put is down to a mixture of driver error and lack of FCY that set the stage. An unfortunate accident that was avoidable on more than one level.

Richard

Well said, I agree completely.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by MaskedRacer

Kudos to anybody awake at 6:30 am of the race. Fatigue set in for me about 2 am. Went to the hotel room and ended up oversleeping until 9. But got back to watch the last 5 hours entirely from the grandstands and it was great.

I know the infield is great and all. But the watching the race from the top of the grandstands just between turn 1 and where the cars go back onto the oval is spectacular. My favorite place to watch the race by far.

I went back to my rental van in the infield and slept from ~2a to 530a, I was determined to see the sunrise from the stands.

Woke up, went to the bathroom, grabbed a Red Bull and began making my way to the tram pickup...passed notorious Tenths IMSA hater Gulf on the way there, who was wearing an IMSA media vest, so make of that what you will.

Turns out the trams weren't quite running yet...so I was forced to hoof it from the Intl Horseshoe to the stands. Made it just past the kink and a golf cart pulls over next to me. My buddy who was spotting for one of the Viper teams told me to hop on and asked where I was headed, as he was going out to the stands as well. Made it up to section 369 with about 25 minutes before sunrise and it was fantastic.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I thought so at the time and it still beggars belief, how everyone else managed to avoid the stationary PC, except for Meyrick.

I wonder if the PC car cycling its lights on and off may have confused Meyrick somehow? He seemed to take a line directly at the PC car and didn't really make a huge attempt to change course it appeared. Did he look down for a moment? Was he blocked briefly by the GT car going to the corner before him? Only Andy can tell us what happened from his end. And likewise, only the PC driver can tell us how he ended up stopped in the middle of the corner.

[gert]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

How is it that the DW's team spotter wasn't letting him know about the parked car? How is it so many cars got by, but he didn't... after seeing the video, I can't see how this isn't the teams fault, and/or the driver.

The spotter apparently told him more than once. Meyrick claims he had radio problems and couldn't hear him (at that part of the track?).
It may be true (that he couldn't hear him), but I guess the spotter can't do any more than what he did.

Check this video for some conversation between spotter and driver after the accident: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6I-UThjabk
01:27 - 02:10

"I've been talking to you the whole way down the front stretch bud..." Ouch!

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

How is it that the DW's team spotter wasn't letting him know about the parked car? How is it so many cars got by, but he didn't... after seeing the video, I can't see how this isn't the teams fault, and/or the driver.

There is another video, same feed, but with the audio of the incredulous team spotter on the radio asking how he had not made it perfectly clear there was a stalled car where it was, and the driver saying he didn't hear that. It goes on with the spotter becoming even more incredulous that the driver seemed to hear him every other time. Note, this is after the DW rammed the other car, so the radio survived that. I can bet the spotter will not accept any blame at all on this one.

Edit-thanks for posting that video gert.

[Obizzz]

Originally Posted by ATLFalconsFAN

That video absolutely confirms my suspicion. Completely, utterly inexcusable that a full course caution was not called prior to that accident. That was COMPLETELY avoidable!

Look at the Lamborghinis and Viper passing. that should have been a hint that the cars are not obeying the yellow right there and race control should have thrown a FCY.

[Maelochs]

I would say that since so many cars did get by the stalled PC, race control was justified in thinking a local yellow was enough.

If race control had called for FCY, there would have been just as many people complaining about that on 10-10ths as there are because there was no FCY.

None of really know what's up with the radio ... but we can all be pretty sure Andy Meyrick did not Want to hit that or any other car. He had a decent shot at the overall win. I have to assume he didn't know the car was there and didn't see it in time. I don't have a clue why he didn't seem to even try to avoid it ... But I am not ready to start flinging blame and calling tor beheadings. Unfortunate incident, to be sure.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

I would say that since so many cars did get by the stalled PC, race control was justified in thinking a local yellow was enough.

The PC car just seemed to be recycling systems and was very likely seemingly to get moving, and the driver is not gesturing that he is 'dead.' So, race control was at that point trying to prevent a FCY since every indication seemed to be the PC was about to carry on.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

but we can all be pretty sure Andy Meyrick did not Want to hit that or any other car.

I hope I have not come across as implying that Meyrick intentionally hit the stalled car. I do think he was caught up in making sure he made headlines like Legge has already done in the car, and it was a red mist type moment. He made the wrong headlines....

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by gert

The spotter apparently told him more than once. Meyrick claims he had radio problems and couldn't hear him (at that part of the track?).
It may be true (that he couldn't hear him), but I guess the spotter can't do any more than what he did.

Check this video for some conversation between spotter and driver after the accident: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6I-UThjabk
01:27 - 02:10

"I've been talking to you the whole way down the front stretch bud..." Ouch!

I read somewhere(can't recall where) that a team spokesman confirmed they were having intermittent radio interference down the front stretch but that they have no way of knowing for sure whether it struck at that time or if Meryick is just using it as an excuse. I'm inclined to believe that it had - Meryick is not a moron, and if he'd been informed, been told to go wide, and been able to HEAR it, I have no doubt he would have.

People have noted there was an illuminated flagman waving a yellow, but have not acknowledged that said flagman was in a poor spot - way off to the left, farther away from the racing line than the vast majority of flagmen, while going into a blind corner. It's simply not as easy to see as the Monday morning drivers would like to believe.

Even if he had seen the flag, there's no reason to assume he'd have been able to avoid the car if he couldn't hear the spotter telling him where it is. You can't effectively dodge something if you don't know where it is - not unless you slow to a crawl, which would've made him just as big a hazard.

Most annoyingly about this whole situation is that I know that while we can all agree now that an FCY should have been thrown for that, but I guarantee you that if IMSA had thrown it right away there'd be a LOT of people trying to claim it wasn't necessary. To far too many fans, all FCY's are unnecessary until something like this happens.

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by joeb

Only Andy can tell us what happened from his end. And likewise, only the PC driver can tell us how he ended up stopped in the middle of the corner.

The #8 PC spun by himself under braking for T1 and stalled.

The updated valve train and compression for the PC motors is overpowering the old starter on the spec motors. 6 of the 21 FCY's were caused by stalled LMPC's unable to restart.

Katech is working on a solution (I'd guess a bigger starter motor).

-mike

[Obizzz]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

not unless you slow to a crawl, which would've made him just as big a hazard.

Which is pretty much what everyone should do during waving yellows but noone does it. You should be able to stop if needed. This time it was a car. What if it had been personel working at the track?

[wolfhound]

While we can see the the flag post just before and to drivers left waving it is what was happening at preceeding posts that would be more important. Was there a yellow prior to turn 1? The other thing is the PC car's rear lights were not working prior to impact but had been earlier. I don't believe it is a good thing to depend on radio messages as I have experience of poor radio communication at times and you need a back up.

[Ephaeton]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

Most annoyingly about this whole situation is that I know that while we can all agree now that an FCY should have been thrown for that, but I guarantee you that if IMSA had thrown it right away there'd be a LOT of people trying to claim it wasn't necessary. To far too many fans, all FCY's are unnecessary until something like this happens.

As you're the second to postulate this, let's observe:

• We have had plenty of FCYs (some, comic, such as the one for the "believed to be" stopped Ford that fled from its tow vehicle).
• We have had plenty of replies to this thread.
• There were not "a LOT" of people attacking each FCY
• In fact most FCY-talk is post-race, related to one incident, and we're mulling it over collectively, no surprise there's a couple of pages of talk about it now.