Future Grands Prix?

[TheMightyM]

Not helping things is that Brazil's economy is a complete mess. Per CNN, from back in October:

About 12 million Brazilians are now out of work, up from 8.8 million a year ago, recent government figures show. On Tuesday, officials announced that Brazil's industrial production declined so much in August, it wiped out the gains from the past five months.

And:

Brazil is mired in in its longest recession since the 1930s and the IMF estimates meager growth next year. Latin America's largest economy shrank 3.8% last year and the IMF now forecasts it will fall another 3.3% this year.

To put it bluntly, Brazil has far, far larger problems that meeting Bernie's demands for ever more money. That Bernie didn't mention the condition of Brazil's economy shows just how out of touch he is.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by TheMightyM

Not helping things is that Brazil's economy is a complete mess. Per CNN, from back in October:

To put it bluntly, Brazil has far, far larger problems that meeting Bernie's demands for ever more money. That Bernie didn't mention the condition of Brazil's economy shows just how out of touch he is.

I think it's more to do with Bernie not caring, just as long as he gets the money. He has no qualms about threatening and taking away races from long standing venues, if they can't pay him the sanctioning fee and giving the race to another country/venue who have the money but have little or no motorsports heritage.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

It's always about the money with Bernie.

“They spent a lot of money to have the Olympics and the World Cup, and here [Sao Paulo] hurts a little bit, the promoter trying to run this race, and make a profit, or not make a profit, but not lose. So in the end the people who lose are us, because they can’t pay us.”

Maybe if he didn't command such a exorbitant sanctioning fee in the first place, this wouldn't be an issue. So in the end the people who lose out are the Brazilian fans and F1 itself.

You couldn't more right on the last post and considering the amount of dosh F1 gets from businesses it's not like Bernie can't reach into his own pocket and help is it? I just hope the new owners get rid of him and soon, he's saved and then ruined a great sport

[Mekola]

Can Nelson Piquet Senior doing anything to remain the Brazilian GP into the F1 calendar?

[Mike Harte]

It is getting more and more as though BCE and CVC have almost killed the goose that's been laying all their golden eggs as ever more circuits are doubting the wisdom of hosting F1.

In a recent interview in Germany, Mr E acknowledges that now Singapore are questioning whether they will renew their contract when it ends next year. So, circuits that may or may not wish to continue would seem to include Australia, Singapore, Malaysia, Italy, Germany, Britain, Hungary, Canada, USA and Brazil.

It really is beyond time that BCE stopped fleecing the circuits that hold rounds of championship. At the rate that he going, there is a likelihood that there will be no races in any of the traditional circuits.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/si...ne-852227/?s=1

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

It is getting more and more as though BCE and CVC have almost killed the goose that's been laying all their golden eggs as ever more circuits are doubting the wisdom of hosting F1.

In a recent interview in Germany, Mr E acknowledges that now Singapore are questioning whether they will renew their contract when it ends next year. So, circuits that may or may not wish to continue would seem to include Australia, Singapore, Malaysia, Italy, Germany, Britain, Hungary, Canada, USA and Brazil.

It really is beyond time that BCE stopped fleecing the circuits that hold rounds of championship. At the rate that he going, there is a likelihood that there will be no races in any of the traditional circuits.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/si...ne-852227/?s=1

It's not really that surprising and only a matter of time.

He moved F1 from Europe to the Middle East and to Asia, where there was no motorsports heritage or much of a following, simply because these places were willing to pay him more money to join Bernie's F1 Club. So after a few years it has now become financially unsustainable. It looks like other venues are becoming wise to what's going on but by the time they stop hosting GPs it may be too late for F1.

[S griffin]

What goes around comes around, it seems these far away venues haven't got quite the dosh Bernie was expecting

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by S griffin

What goes around comes around, it seems these far away venues haven't got quite the dosh Bernie was expecting

I think you'll find, that when they originally signed up with Bernie they had the money but the lack of a natural fan base, means crowd attendance and ticket sales are poor. Therefore races are being run at a loss.

Obviously this isn't the case with GPs like Australia, Brazil and Germany who have a motorsports heritage and therefore natural fan base. However, these races are being bled dry by Bernie demanding expensive upgrades to the tracks and facilities, plus an increase in the already expensive sanctioning fee. The tracks therefore put up their ticket prices and the attendance starts to drop.

[Mike Harte]

Malaysia now confirms that it will not renew it's contract which covers the race until 2018. They say that it is just too expensive, whilst the spectator numbers are dwindling.

This sort of reminds me of the negotiations that I had with a major union back in 80s. The deputy general secretary told me that it was his bosses intention to squeeze every employer for the maximum that it could get for it's members until their were no members left. Well, it happened - both most of the industry has gone, and the union no longer exists, but the gen. sec. now sits in the Lords.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ma...er-852486/?s=1

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

It is getting more and more as though BCE and CVC have almost killed the goose that's been laying all their golden eggs as ever more circuits are doubting the wisdom of hosting F1...

to add to that, deals like the one FOM signed with Heineken, take away the venues ability to self finance their own events and to offset the year on year escalators in sanctioning fees.

more then ever before they have to rely on higher ticket prices and/or government subsidies...neither of which is going to endear them to their local population.

imo good for Malaysia and if they are actually satisfying their country's objectives at a much lower price and with higher attendance via MotoGP good for them for dropping F1.

[bella]

i wonder why the circuits who are being squeezed don't get together en masse (it has to be at least half the calendar) and demand better terms?

[Greem]

Originally Posted by bella

i wonder why the circuits who are being squeezed don't get together en masse (it has to be at least half the calendar) and demand better terms?

Perhaps because it will then become abundantly clear how many of the circuits have screwed over other circuits in the past... Too many cupboards and too many skeletons.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

It would be quite something for all of the circuits currently concerned to club together and just quit until terms are deemed more acceptable though. Whatever more acceptable may end up meaning...

Let's face it though, F1 nowadays would be a bit more than farcical with an 8 Grand Prix calendar.

[chillibowl]

would they be allowed to do that under the agreements they have with the FIA to host F1 and other FIA sanctioned events?

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I think you'll find, that when they originally signed up with Bernie they had the money but the lack of a natural fan base, means crowd attendance and ticket sales are poor. Therefore races are being run at a loss.

Obviously this isn't the case with GPs like Australia, Brazil and Germany who have a motorsports heritage and therefore natural fan base. However, these races are being bled dry by Bernie demanding expensive upgrades to the tracks and facilities, plus an increase in the already expensive sanctioning fee. The tracks therefore put up their ticket prices and the attendance starts to drop.

I think that's more the point, he thinks he's getting a good deal, but the spectator numbers aren't happening, which means they are losing dosh and suddenly can't pay his prices

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by Mekola

Can Nelson Piquet Senior doing anything to remain the Brazilian GP into the F1 calendar?

Aside from pay for it, I doubt it. Older drives don't have much influence. In the UK, JYS has banged on every government government door and got no support for Silverstone.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

It is getting more and more as though BCE and CVC have almost killed the goose that's been laying all their golden eggs as ever more circuits are doubting the wisdom of hosting F1.

In a recent interview in Germany, Mr E acknowledges that now Singapore are questioning whether they will renew their contract when it ends next year. So, circuits that may or may not wish to continue would seem to include Australia, Singapore, Malaysia, Italy, Germany, Britain, Hungary, Canada, USA and Brazil.

It really is beyond time that BCE stopped fleecing the circuits that hold rounds of championship. At the rate that he going, there is a likelihood that there will be no races in any of the traditional circuits.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/si...ne-852227/?s=1

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think that Liberty have bought a pig in a poke, to coin a phrase. Why?

Circuits don't see the value - as you have highlighted. For those that were interested, they think F1 has done it's job and they move onto something else, and you can't be seen to pour tax payers money to support an event with the world's richest brands involved!
I think the masive TV rights money is a thing of the past as contracts expire.
Viewing figures are falling
Younger audience don't watch it
No new manufacturers entering or even thinking of it - all moving to FE
All this 'monetising' Liberty keep telling us about - how do you monetise something that is already widely covered by the internet - this isn't the 1980's anymore whereby if you didn't see the race you had to wait for Motorsport News to report it on Wednesday
Car makers are moving quicky to zero emmisions as legislation is implemented, so F1 will be irrelevant.
Honestly, I think F1 has 10-15 years left in total before it is either merged with FE or simpy disappears and during that time it will be a dimishing return as it's core audience moves away and frankly dies out.

[JABWOA]

Liberty want more races.
More circuits are dropping off (or seriously thinking about it)
Solution - BE to the rescue!! Have 2 races each weekend, with each being a separate round (to retain race win link to history/legacy). Just 15 weekends will bring about 30 rounds!!

F1 will always survive, it will however evolve, much like it has since inception.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JABWOA

Liberty want more races.
More circuits are dropping off (or seriously thinking about it)
Solution - BE to the rescue!! Have 2 races each weekend, with each being a separate round (to retain race win link to history/legacy). Just 15 weekends will bring about 30 rounds!!

F1 will always survive, it will however evolve, much like it has since inception.

Double headers like IndyCar and loads of rounds like NASCAR.

[wolfhound]

Will that mean Bernie charging the circuits twice as much because they get 2 races?

It could be one of his red herrings to divert attention from something else.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

Will that mean Bernie charging the circuits twice as much because they get 2 races?

It could be one of his red herrings to divert attention from something else.

Charge double for the tickets too!

[wolfhound]

It seems that Singapore is also on doubtful list when its current contract runs out. It looks like F1's new owners are going to have to think of a different way or take less money from GP promoters.
In recent times all we seem to be hearing about are GP races stopping and not new ones joining.

https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2016...and-singapore/

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ma...nister-852486/

Ta da.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ma...nister-852486/

Ta da.

See yesterday's posts; not quite so "Ta da"!

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Double headers like IndyCar and loads of rounds like NASCAR.

Originally Posted by wolfhound

Will that mean Bernie charging the circuits twice as much because they get 2 races?

IndyCar has two 2-hour races at Detroit, one week after the Indy 500. It's an ultra-marathon.

Bernie wants two 40 minute races. That would be a pathetic circus.