[WEC] Porsche GTP / Hypercar: factory and customer

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Why ,what happened with Webber and Red Bull in a nut shell please ?

Most of race: Webber bolts from 5th on grid and with good pace and strategy gets to lead, dominates, extends gap on Vettel until final pistop where after a quick duel he starts Stretching Out again

Post-Pit Stop: Red Bull orders Webber to slow down to save tires/the car/whatever while promising Vettel would not pass as they also ordered Vettel to slow down and NOT PASS WEBBER.

Then, Webber follows the team orders and Vettel disobeys the team orders, passing Mark while he is (by orders) slowing down to save tires, screwing Mark Webber out of a race he had won.

Even stupider is Vettel almost wrecked both cars on the pit straight while at 180 mph.

[TF110]

Webber went against team orders in the past as well, but we all know the Silverstone story. I think he'll still be in F1 after this year and if so it won't be with RB.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by TF110

Webber went against team orders in the past as well, but we all know the Silverstone story. I think he'll still be in F1 after this year and if so it won't be with RB.

He still has the talent to race in F1 for many years. That's not the issue. It's a case of where does he go if the Red Bull seat becomes untenable?

There aren't many free seats out there for drivers with no budget. He doesn't strike me as a guy who will try and scrape together funding. So let's see.

[Dario911]

Porsche has a lot of LMP drivers, and it's not necessary to bring former-F1 drivers in the team. They may only take Webber and Heidefeld to reinforce the team, but I don't think those drivers would be basic to win. Endurance is as hard as formula 1, and now drivers are specialized. A winning f1 driver may be only a gregarious in endurance, as well an endurance drivers may be no a winner in formula 1.The period when drivers were competitive in both classes are over.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Dario911

Porsche has a lot of LMP drivers.

I would dispute this fact to be honest. They have a couple - but certainly not enough to make a two-car team at Le Mans, let alone three.

If people think the likes of Bergmeister, Lieb and Long and going to be driving the P1 they are dreaming in my opinion.

They have guys on their roster who I think could make the step up (Vernay being the one that comes most to mind) but I think they will need to go out and buy some talent.

[The Badger]

More thoughts on Webber to Porsche :

http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...nce-17090.html

[Scooter185]

Originally Posted by Dario911

Porsche has a lot of LMP drivers, and it's not necessary to bring former-F1 drivers in the team. They may only take Webber and Heidefeld to reinforce the team, but I don't think those drivers would be basic to win. Endurance is as hard as formula 1, and now drivers are specialized. A winning f1 driver may be only a gregarious in endurance, as well an endurance drivers may be no a winner in formula 1.The period when drivers were competitive in both classes are over.

While I agree about specialization, I think that LMP1 cars are the closest top level cars to F1. If we were talking about Mark going to av8sc, dtm, IndyCar, NASCAR, or even GT I would agree 100% but I don't see much reason why a modern driver couldn't be competitive in f1 and then LMP1.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Scooter185

While I agree about specialization, I think that LMP1 cars are the closest top level cars to F1. If we were talking about Mark going to av8sc, dtm, IndyCar, NASCAR, or even GT I would agree 100% but I don't see much reason why a modern driver couldn't be competitive in f1 and then LMP1.

F1 drivers take a while to adjust to the endurance mind set. You go from being an individual to an equal of three; your two team-mates are for 6, 12 or 24 hours almost an extension of yourself. So you don't hold information back any more.

On top of that, you have to learn about traffic. You have to learn to drive with little sleep. You have to learn to get into a car that might behave completely differently on a completely different track to the one you drove in your last stint.

All F1 drivers that come to LMP racing are quick straight away, but there's more to it than that. F1 drivers often make mistakes that the experienced LM pros wouldn't at first.

The performance levels of F1 and LMP aren't miles apart (although the way they achieve their speed is slightly different), but that's not the thing the drivers have to get used to. That's one of few similarities between F1 and LMP1.

[Rodger Davies]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

F1 drivers take a while to adjust to the endurance mind set.

I don't think it's as easy as making a generalisation like that; some do take to it and some don't. I was surprised with Nakajima's pace last year, I wasn't expecting that.

Ever driver has different strengths and weaknesses though; it's not a case of simply saying A is faster than B, therefore is better - that's like saying the footballer with the best shooting ability is the best player.

The crucial thing is looking at the attributes and seeing which would cope best. Someone quick in F1 may be quick in a prototype, but not have the consistency, the ability to compromise on setups or the ability in constant traffic required, but similarly they may do that naturally.

I thoroughly enjoyed watching the way Audi have brought drivers from all sorts of 'slower' disciplines together and competed man-for-man with the ex-F1 brigade Peugeot had.

Webber's a little different though; he has the experience of prototype competition. He may be a little more senior, but he's proven his abilities to cope with it before - I'd suggest this, more than anything, is why Porsche will be certainly considering him.

[GT6]

I think Mr Webber will have to decide himself what he wants to do, he has no worries about money and would be a great asset to any team and sports car racing so he would be welcomed by any team but does he have the desire to continue in motor racing or does he see his ambition taking him elsewhere. Meet him once on a visit to testing at silverstone in the jaguar era and he was a very nice person as well as a great driver

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

I don't think it's as easy as making a generalisation like that; some do take to it and some don't. I was surprised with Nakajima's pace last year, I wasn't expecting that.

Nakajima had two years in Super GT between F1 and LMP1, let's not forget that.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

I have yet to see one F1 driver in the last decade that has been a complete failure when he comes over to sports cars, especially LMPs.

We give them a hard time because they often run into cars when they first get into the LMP like Kaz did at Le Mans this year, but who hasn't? Remember Andre Lotterer's and Marcel Fassler's first season with Audi? McNish has been in Sports cars for decades and he runs into far more cars than any of the current F1 crop like Kaz, Buemi and Davidson.

[vincegail]

Let us hope Grosjean stays away from sportscar racing!

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by vincegail

Let us hope Grosjean stays away from sportscar racing!

Uh... I seem to recall he did rather well in his short 4-month stint with Matech in GT1 and at Le Mans.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Why is anybody worried about Grosjean, Nakajima or ANY Formula 1 driver when we allow talentless hacks like the Pierguiseppe Perazzini and Keiko Ihara into one of the world's most prestigious and more importantly dangerous races in the world as mobile chicanes to 200 mph prototypes?

[vincegail]

Note to self:
don't make silly jokes about stuff you don't know everything about

On topic:
I think Webber will be an asset when/if he joins Porsche or any other top LMP team. Can't think he enjoys going to work nowadays, so the rumours might be true.

[GT6]

Not that many F1 drivers i would be happy to see in the LMP1 class but Webber would be welcome

[Number7]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Why is anybody worried about Grosjean, Nakajima or ANY Formula 1 driver when we allow talentless hacks like the Pierguiseppe Perazzini and Keiko Ihara into one of the world's most prestigious and more importantly dangerous races in the world as mobile chicanes to 200 mph prototypes?

Well said!

[deggis]

Originally Posted by The Badger

More thoughts on Webber to Porsche :

http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...nce-17090.html

"German newspaper Bild", stop reading. Yesterday I saw the original story and it was just repeating the earlier rumors, wasn't even worth posting. And generally I can't think of a more untrustworthy source of motorsport news than Bild. I-E should have just ignored this.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Nakajima had two years in Super GT between F1 and LMP1, let's not forget that.

Lotterer and Duval had Super GT experience as well, plus Nakajima currently does Super Formula (Formula Nippon) and according to his blog they have higher cornering speeds than F1 . LMP1's have probably about the same amount of speed through those high speed turns but are 300kg heavier, so the difference is the lower speed stuff and probably the acceleration. F1 to LMP1 isn't that huge of a difference. The Audi and Toyota would have been on the HRT's tail through a lot of the tracks they share!

[rich07]

I think Webber would fit well into Porsche, unlike at Red Bull its not centred around one driver like with Vettel at RBR, its all about Porsche win, doesnt matter who wins as long as Porsche wins at the end of the day thats all Porsche cares about.

Hes a team player, hes not perfect but hes overwhelmingly moreso a team player then a rebel so thats another plus for him. Im sure he'd be fast and consistent, assuming the Porsche LMP1 will be a good car-we can assume that given how much staff and resources Porsche are throwing at the car and their experience at Le Mans.

But that question remains-does he want to do sportscar racing? Only Mark Webber knows that and we wont know anything until the new year at least. Who knows he might stay on in F1 for another year if he feels competitive and supported by the team.

I really hope he does sportscars because then we'll have more coverage of the sport down here in Australia.

[deggis]

http://www.pitpass.com/48383-Exclusi...-Porsche-links

(I think already posted) Probably the best story about this so far, which isn't much, but at least it has a polite denial comment from Webber himself.

[porsche91722]

There's no doubting the talent of Mr Webber. If Porsche were to get him, he would be an asset. He's no mug and would surely grasp the concept of endurance racing, having dabbled in it in the past. Now, there's only one problem...... that F1 attitude, but I'm sure they'd beat it out of him in no time. After all, they are Porsche!
It would be great to have another Aussie in LMP1, although by all reports on the credibility of the German rag that started this latest rumor, it looks only remotely possible.
I'm thinking that the 2014 LMP1 Porsche driver roster would be already in place, and am leaning more to some of the existing factory guys being in the cars. Lieb is the golden haired boy over there isn't he? I know his LMP race experience would be practically nonexistent, but surely he would be doing a lot of the testing for them.

[skycafe]

I thought Webber was going to Renault? (SORRY)

He did some endurance racing before with Mercedes, I think he has the experience.

[cmk]

Originally Posted by skycafe

I thought Webber was going to Renault? (SORRY)

He did some endurance racing before with Mercedes, I think he has the experience.

Nope, he's subbing for Denny Hamiln at JGR.

I thought he went to Mercedes to get his pilot's license?