[WEC] BoP. Brilliant or Pants.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by tomcug

Different track, different data, especially since last year's race data is available. This isn't supposed to be success ballast

It's not, but it feels like they are treating it as such (at least for Toyota anyway).

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Articus

I suspect that the ACO will have to make a massive correction to the Cadillac BOP next year after Jota shows them how poor the Ganassi team was.

IKR? How much Testing is going to be available between Bahrain and Qatar?

[tomcug]

Originally Posted by Articus

Something has been off to me all season with the Cadillacs. On the paper the Cadillac should dominate. 520kw and 1036kg for Fuji. This is more or less the limits of the BOP table. If the Porsche were to run these specifications, they would dominate. They are all LMDH cars. In IMSA, the Porsche has middle of the pack BOP but in WEC the Porsche has the most weight and least power amongst the LMDH cars by a reasonable margin. They are at least 10kg heavier than any other LMDH car and also have the lowest power for any LMDH car.

Those are not exactly the same cars that race in IMSA due to wind tunnel differences. Maybe others managed to exploit the flaws of Sauber's tunnel better than Caddy did? Anyway, since all new homologations will take place at a Windshear facility (according to rumors), maybe that's some chance for LMDh cars to get a free aero upgrade dropping them some drag

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by tomcug

https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/...fuji/10653000/
These guys have EI subscription it seems

EDIT: Added data from this article: https://www.formulacritica.it/fia-we...oogle_vignette

Small tweaks. Continuing the theme of other recent movements. Probably because they don't jump with one big movement.

[Adam43]

That article also contained the >250kph stuff and the other bits. No change to it being 250kph FWIW.

This bulletin

• They have compensated Toyota >250kph, but haven't given them any more. I'm a little surprised by that, but only a little as you can't massively tell.
• Porsche is the winner here. Peugeot, I doubt it's enough.

More generally

• These are small movements (as advertised they would be), but we do now have the biggest spread we've had all year. Although the LMDh spread have narrowed just a little.
• Ignoring Peugeot there is a decent split in LMDh and Hypercar. This is more than comparable to the spread with in the types of car.
• The power > 250kph has got wide. this might be showing up the variation (hurrah!) possible in car design with respect to absolute drag and downforce v. the ratio of these.

[Gerard C]

When you say you doubt its enough for Peugeot, do you mean its not enough to have them on the front row? I think its quite a lot and should it not be enough for them to achieve a really great result, may be they'd better think about something else than a WC. IMO.

[Adam43]

I don't think it is enough to be better than mid-field. If that.

[TF110]

The car is not right at the moment. I read comments from the team that it's not good at using the tires. If they make more changes to the car it'll most likely be mechanical. There's some things bop can't fix.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I don't think it is enough to be better than mid-field. If that.

Where do you think IF would have been with Peugeot's driver lineup, BoP and operational budget? (Besides on the grid)

[Adam43]

That is a good question. I’d phrase it as with a decent budget as with a Peugeot budget is just madness!

[Gerard C]

Where do you think Peugeot would have been with Toyota's BoP? OK BoP is not a success ballast but in this case the french team has been unfairly treated. From the beginning. They are not happy? Let them go back to what they did right, dentistry, mopeds and bicycles.

[tomcug]

Originally Posted by TF110

If they make more changes to the car it'll most likely be mechanical. There's some things bop can't fix.

I think best they can do is going back to the wingless car. That one was good at least on some tracks, new one is average at best and usually bad or very bad. But seems more likely they'll try to "fix" the winged car (again).

[Gerard C]

All the difference between commitment and stubbornness. Great lack of humility and a lot of load on the pit crew and drivers. A lot of time spent "dealing" with instances.

[flatlandsman]

I think the issue with Peugeot is that they just threw money at it with the car and drivers and expected it to be a little like before with the diesel, these cars ae actually far more complex than I think people realise, and simply put Peugeot got the car completely wrong and their fix has not worked, which is actually sad,

It would be interesting to see what would have happened if they had persisted with the ground effect car ad not knee jerked. But they had long enough to maybe realise that was never going to work. I don't think any amount of BoP can fix their issues sadly

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Adam43

That is a good question. I’d phrase it as with a decent budget as with a Peugeot budget is just madness!

Oh? What kind of numbers are we looking at here? Guesstimate?

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Where do you think Peugeot would have been with Toyota's BoP? OK BoP is not a success ballast but in this case the french team has been unfairly treated. From the beginning. They are not happy? Let them go back to what they did right, dentistry, mopeds and bicycles.

In a backroom designing a WRC car after shuttering the WEC program.

Originally Posted by tomcug

I think best they can do is going back to the wingless car. That one was good at least on some tracks, new one is average at best and usually bad or very bad. But seems more likely they'll try to "fix" the winged car (again).

Question, is the winged wonder counted as a second homologation, or simply an evo with jokers applied?


Secondly, does anybody know if a second car is homologated, do they get back 5 jokers to develop it or if you "spend" 3 jokers on your first car, are you only allowed 2 for the second homologation? i.e. are the jokers assigned per team or per car?

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Matador

Oh? What kind of numbers are we looking at here? Guesstimate?

I don’t know, but we’ve heard rumors that it is one of the biggest. No idea how credible that is.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Matador

In a backroom designing a WRC car after shuttering the WEC program.

True.

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Matador

Question, is the winged wonder counted as a second homologation, or simply an evo with jokers applied?

Its a brand new car counted as an evo of the wingless. No new homologation, no Bop a la Isotta and stuff. Yes, they've been unfairly treated but not the way one could think. A real shame.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Its a brand new car counted as an evo of the wingless. No new homologation, no Bop a la Isotta and stuff. Yes, they've been unfairly treated but not the way one could think. A real shame.

Care to elaborate?

[Gerard C]

OK! They've been recently moaning about an "unfair treatment". This was related to Bop adjustment. What I mean, tongue in cheek, is that I find that too many things have been done in their favor so far. Weight, front axle speed deployment, homologation of a brand new car as an evo, start the new season with the old car but keeping the same Bop, and many other things. They should not moan. Not at all IMO. The threaten of leaving the championship takes the mickey. Dare!

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

OK! They've been recently moaning about an "unfair treatment". This was related to Bop adjustment. What I mean, tongue in cheek, is that I find that too many things have been done in their favor so far. Weight, front axle speed deployment, homologation of a brand new car as an evo, start the new season with the old car but keeping the same Bop, and many other things. They should not moan. Not at all IMO. The threaten of leaving the championship takes the mickey. Dare!

Ahh, gotchu. Well.... the threat of Alpine coming along nicely should make them adjust their perspoective

[Gerard C]

!

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by Matador

Ahh, gotchu. Well.... the threat of Alpine coming along nicely should make them adjust their perspoective

Might take a few seasons lol

[flatlandsman]

The car is a turd, it really is that simple, it has never worked properly and should have been binned in favour of something better instead of wasting millions redesigning it, it looks fabulous, even with the awful paint job they use now, but sadly it is a pup!

This is the factory that took on Audi and won, and now they are getting beaten by just about everyone in the class, it cannot carry on without a new car. Stellantis will utterly loath being this useless. I actually think if the same budget was thrown at Isotta they would do better!

[S griffin]

Yes, Alpine have hardly covered themselves in glory. They seem quite out of their depth. The competition is way too tough for them. Would be surprised if they continue much longer