Group A Rover 3500 SD1/Vitesse - History & Whereabouts

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by basmsport

019

Ah, was Eddy at the wheel at Mallory then?

Is the car going to be at Donington at the end of the month?

[thebullet]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Ah, was Eddy at the wheel at Mallory then?

Is the car going to be at Donington at the end of the month?

Seemed to be running well, brakes sounded a bit rough!

[corliss]

Originally Posted by corliss

Hi all, in a fit of boredom i started looking back at old posts and came up with something interesting Re the 83 rally cars that seemed to appear and disappear, somebody posed the question (cant find the post) could the car have been an Ex Grp 1 shell pressed into service? The answer has been staring me in the face for a year or two and i've only just recognised it, The Grp 1 cars were built on series 1 cars and the Grp A cars on series 2 shells, apart from a difference in the screen scuttle pressing the only other difference was the front jacking points and tow hooks, S1 cars had a round 2 piece pressing with a single hole, and S2 cars had a flat blade plate with 1 round and 1 oblong hole,, if you look closely at first pic the car has a S1 tow hook, indicating a s1 shell, tow hook was part of front chassis rail, other cars definately have S2 tow hooks (same number plate,,different chassis) i've also pictured the tow hook on my S1 shell to see the difference.
As far as i can see one car was definately a series 1 shell so was probably a Grp 1 shell that was used !
All of the above assumes that i dont need to get down to Specsavers ASAP,
Skip

Bit more on difference between Grp 1 shells and Grp2 shells,
Pic of Tim Slako's Grp a shell tow point, and one of a Grp1 tow point,
Might help in identifying various cars
Skip

[chunterer]

Might be further confusion here in that the Slako car also started out as a G1 chassis originally, not a Grp A.

[corliss]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Might be further confusion here in that the Slako car also started out as a G1 chassis originally, not a Grp A.

I might be confusing issues here by referring to S1, S2, Grp1 and GrpA,
Series 1 shells were built up to around mid 81 before the introduction of the S2 shells for the 82 model year, the single round hole tow hook was only found on a Series 1 shell, although the "blade" type 2 hole tow hook could also be found on S1 shells. ALL S2 shells, 82 on, had blade type 2 hole tow hook. So if a single hole two piece welded tow hook is seen it is almost certain to be a S1 shell, BUT if the 2 hole blade type is seen it could be either S1 or S2. My Ex Sanyo Grp1 car has the flat blade type!

Another interesting point has just arisen by my random choice of using the ex Slako shell as a comparison photo, i just took another quick look at it and realised it is a S2 shell!!!! if you look at the screen scuttle either side of the air intake there are 2 raised pressings (bumps) that on road cars are for rubber bonnet buffers, that shell pressing was ONLY used on S2
shells, S1 was totally flat. So without doing heaps of research on the origins of the Slako shell it has either been re shelled sometime in its life, or it was a late built Grp1 car for 82 season using a new S2 shell. If the guys in Adelaide at Rover Spares are reading this check for a small welded body plate ID prob beside rear speaker holes or above R/H headlamp, should start with SD1 or SD2

I only started this comment to agree with speculation that more than one car was used for rallying by Tom carrying the same reg no.

Skip

[Nivola]

Re shelled when in the BTCC days or buy Tim himself here in Perth?

[KA]

Originally Posted by Nivola

Re shelled when in the BTCC days or buy Tim himself here in Perth?

Good question- it took at least one big hit during Slako's ownership (notably the Bathurst qualifying shunt in '86), but IIRC wasn't it suggested earlier in the thread that the shell shows signs of the repairs from those- think there were some shots posted of it being repaired in the TAFE workshop at Bathurst.

IIRC, didn't we come to the conclusion that it started out as a Martin Thomas/Patrick Motorsport Gp1 car, before becoming the Sawyer-Hoare GpA Vitesse for 1983/4, prepped by Andy Rouse?. Could that have been when any possible re-shell happened?

[KA]

Originally Posted by KA

Good question- it took at least one big hit during Slako's ownership (notably the Bathurst qualifying shunt in '86), but IIRC wasn't it suggested earlier in the thread that the shell shows signs of the repairs from those- think there were some shots posted of it being repaired in the TAFE workshop at Bathurst.

IIRC, didn't we come to the conclusion that it started out as a Martin Thomas/Patrick Motorsport Gp1 car, before becoming the Sawyer-Hoare GpA Vitesse for 1983/4, prepped by Andy Rouse?. Could that have been when any possible re-shell happened?

The CS-H car at the Donington ETC round in 1984
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendaman/5407687566/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendaman/5407698224/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendaman/5407074409/

Does that shed any light on the matter?

There's a 1983 TT pic on Racingsportscars, but at first sight the area under the front bumper is in too much shadow to be able to tell...
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-09-11-025.jpg

[corliss]

Originally Posted by KA

Good question- it took at least one big hit during Slako's ownership (notably the Bathurst qualifying shunt in '86), but IIRC wasn't it suggested earlier in the thread that the shell shows signs of the repairs from those- think there were some shots posted of it being repaired in the TAFE workshop at Bathurst.

IIRC, didn't we come to the conclusion that it started out as a Martin Thomas/Patrick Motorsport Gp1 car, before becoming the Sawyer-Hoare GpA Vitesse for 1983/4, prepped by Andy Rouse?. Could that have been when any possible re-shell happened?

Slako car in TAFE workshop after Bathurst damage, note that car has modified tow points, originals cut off, also evident in earlier photo's, cant show the pic, but photo of Patrick motorsport car at show also has modified tow points. Tow point is part of chassis leg not available separately, and TAFE do not look like they need to cut front off another car to repair race car! also no sign of screen pillar to cage stiffeners in any pics of the cars,

[corliss]

Have we come to the end of the Vitesse story?? Has been very quiet for a long time. Spent 3 days with Bert Smeets and Ken Clarke at Spa recently running Ch 019, very impressive couple of races.
Skip

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by KA

Good question- it took at least one big hit during Slako's ownership (notably the Bathurst qualifying shunt in '86), but IIRC wasn't it suggested earlier in the thread that the shell shows signs of the repairs from those- think there were some shots posted of it being repaired in the TAFE workshop at Bathurst.

IIRC, didn't we come to the conclusion that it started out as a Martin Thomas/Patrick Motorsport Gp1 car, before becoming the Sawyer-Hoare GpA Vitesse for 1983/4, prepped by Andy Rouse?. Could that have been when any possible re-shell happened?

Sorry to divert briefly and welcome too Les!

I think the original Patrick car (latterly Slako) was shunted badly at the Brit GP meeting in 1980 necessitating serious work of some description.....

Could that have been a re-shell or a big rebuild job?

[KA]

A few more Rover pics on Flickr- first a couple of ex-Group A cars in Modsaloons in the early 90's

Think this is Derek Hales (rather than Mark Hales as captioned in the pics) at Mallory in early '93, and again at Donington
IIRC this is the ex-Andy Rouse/Pete Hall ICS & Tim Harvey/Istel car- Hales kept the basic stripe pattern of the Istel paintjob
http://www.flickr.com/photos/antspho...ertouringcars/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7636183...ertouringcars/

Any offers for this one though?
From the timestamp on the pic, it's the same Mallory meeting as the Hales car, and looks every inch a Group A car, but which one?
I don't think it's of TWR origin, so orobably one of the privateer cars- but which?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/antspho...ertouringcars/


This one's definitely a Group A car though- Peter Lovett at Silverstone in 1984
http://www.flickr.com/photos/16329766@N07/5953377491/

[chunterer]

Ah KA, glad to see you posting again, where have you been lately?

That #33 might be the Linden Spice/McGrath/Scarborough car? I don't we ever managed to get it confirmed by Gregor through his contacts or by Martin Thomas (who was still involved with that car right thorugh its life it seems) if the car did get written off and if it did when that was?

[GBRM]

Originally Posted by chunterer

That #33 might be the Linden Spice/McGrath/Scarborough car? I don't we ever managed to get it confirmed by Gregor through his contacts or by Martin Thomas (who was still involved with that car right thorugh its life it seems) if the car did get written off and if it did when that was?

Graham said it definitely got written off but maybe he or Trevor could post their recollection.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by GBRM

Graham said it definitely got written off but maybe he or Trevor could post their recollection.

Thanks Gregor, that would be a useful reminder for us all, guess the crucial bit is when it happened?

If it was before 1993, then this #33 won't be it!!

The only other car that springs to mind would be the TWR020 Kevin Eaton car? but the profile and cage doesn't seem to be TWR spec?

[GBRM]

I can't remember exactly when Graham said it was now but I think it was pre 1990 and was in a ModSaloons race.

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Thanks Gregor, that would be a useful reminder for us all, guess the crucial bit is when it happened?

If it was before 1993, then this #33 won't be it!!

The only other car that springs to mind would be the TWR020 Kevin Eaton car? but the profile and cage doesn't seem to be TWR spec?

The other that comes to mind is the ex-Dennis Leech car, which passed through various hands including Nick Humphrey and John Quartermaine. Pretty sure this appeared in modsaloons and Thundersaloons- IIRC it kept the original black/dayglo Leech colours at first, but IIRC it got shunted and reshelled at some point, and I think by the time John Quartermaine had it, it was white.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7502634...in/photostream

I think Kevin Eaton's car was red/grey/white or something like that- but as you say, this doesn't look like a TWR car (Vague memory that someone told us in the thread that the later Leech car from 1986-88 was either a reshell of, or at least used parts from, a shunted 1985-season TWR Bastos car- think it's now restored in Bastos colours for historic racing)

[KA]

Originally Posted by GBRM

I can't remember exactly when Graham said it was now but I think it was pre 1990 and was in a ModSaloons race.

I remember you posted a scan of a magazine article a while back in the thread which showed pics from a Brands Thundersaloon race with two or three Rovers in evidence- a shot taken at Graham Hill bend showing- IIRC, Brian Chatfield's ex-Bastos car, and the ex-Graham Scarborough car (still in red/white Letchworth Roofing colours) and I think one showing the Quartermaine ex-Leech car beached in a gravel trap. Don't recall the date though- maybe 1988, but the pics are no longer up- they were in this post...http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....&postcount=630
I think I've got a copy of the pic saved, but sod's law, it's not saved on the laptop I'm posting from

[GBRM]

I still have the scans/articles if you want me to e-mail them to you.
It wasn't Graham who wrote te car off by the way but I can't remember who it was now.

[KA]

Originally Posted by GBRM

I still have the scans/articles if you want me to e-mail them to you.
It wasn't Graham who wrote te car off by the way but I can't remember who it was now.

Thanks Gregor I'll let you know- I think I kept copies at the time, but they'll be on a different PC. I'll have a look and get back to you

No, I don't remember who Graham's car went to after he sold it either...

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Thanks Gregor, that would be a useful reminder for us all, guess the crucial bit is when it happened?

If it was before 1993, then this #33 won't be it!!

The only other car that springs to mind would be the TWR020 Kevin Eaton car? but the profile and cage doesn't seem to be TWR spec?

Originally Posted by KA

The other that comes to mind is the ex-Dennis Leech car, which passed through various hands including Nick Humphrey and John Quartermaine. Pretty sure this appeared in modsaloons and Thundersaloons- IIRC it kept the original black/dayglo Leech colours at first, but IIRC it got shunted and reshelled at some point, and I think by the time John Quartermaine had it, it was white.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7502634...in/photostream

I think Kevin Eaton's car was red/grey/white or something like that- but as you say, this doesn't look like a TWR car (Vague memory that someone told us in the thread that the later Leech car from 1986-88 was either a reshell of, or at least used parts from, a shunted 1985-season TWR Bastos car- think it's now restored in Bastos colours for historic racing)

Quite correct there chaps. Kevins car was essentially grey/red/white (although an original TWR Bastos car).
I'm sure that I should recognise the 'mystery' Rover, but can't. It certainly looks tidy & well turned out. It also appears to have all the right bits like centre-lock wheels but no apparent air jacks.
Maybe it is John Quartermaine in the ex Leech car? (I know his son has posted on ten-tenths occasionally, maybe he'll pop up and put us all out of our misery?

[KA]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Quite correct there chaps. Kevins car was essentially grey/red/white (although an original TWR Bastos car).
I'm sure that I should recognise the 'mystery' Rover, but can't. It certainly looks tidy & well turned out. It also appears to have all the right bits like centre-lock wheels but no apparent air jacks.
Maybe it is John Quartermaine in the ex Leech car? (I know his son has posted on ten-tenths occasionally, maybe he'll pop up and put us all out of our misery?

Hope so- yes, I remember both John's son, and the current owners of the car (the Williams family I think- father & son) have both posted in the thread. Thanks for confirming the colours of the Kevin Eaton car- think there might have been a pic somewhere back in the thread, but no idea if it's still up. Think it was the last Bastos car built- chunterer mentioned chassis #020?

[Tim Wilkinson]

Richard Williamson finished 3rd in that race. Could it be him in the ex-Leech / Humphries / Quartermaine car?

Looking back through the thread that seemed to end up back in Leech's black colours in the mid/late 90s, then Williamson crashed it pretty badly. Was it rebuilt, reshelled, or was the original Leech shell resurrected?

[KA]

Another nice find on Flickr- think I've posted links to Dan Morgan's pics from the Donington ETC rounds in some of the Group A threads before, but these seem to be new- Donington 1983. Not masses of Rover pics, but one very useful find.

We've talked about the LHD 'Barclay' car which was used by Eddy Joosen in Dutch and Belgian races, as well as in the ETCC- before the Barclay sponsorship appeared, it ran in plain white, with just Austin Rover logos, as here at Donington:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...57627354461572

The other Rover at Donington in 83 was Soper's regular 'Hepolite' car, shared with Jeff Allam
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...57627354461572

the Hepolite car again, shadowing an XJS through Redgate

More here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...th/6014141408/

[KA]

Another Rover rarity- Just been watching a YouTube video that Gerry Taylor posted a link in the Starion thread, which led to this one. Bathurst 1985 coverage, and this clip starts by following the UK-entered Rover of Robinson/Jeffery (the ex-ICS Prodsaloon car IIRC) for a fair part of a lap- about a minute and a half. It also pops up briefly being lapped by a couple of 635s later in the thread
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyKEL...eature=related