[Team] Red Bull: Unbullievable

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

It might be an unfashionable view but I wonder if Perez is demonstrating the inherent speed of the car and Verstappen is proving quite how fast he is in spite of the car.At the same time,the team may be demonstrating that losing several key personnel has impacted on their rate of development,or implementation of modifications that add speed.

I think that they are definitely missing Newey. However, I think that Perez has been losing his touch over the last couple of seasons, not just this year.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

It might be an unfashionable view but I wonder if Perez is demonstrating the inherent speed of the car and Verstappen is proving quite how fast he is in spite of the car.At the same time,the team may be demonstrating that losing several key personnel has impacted on their rate of development,or implementation of modifications that add speed.

I think race to race, sector to sector Max is generally either excellent or at least good. While Checo can be up and down, or inconsistent over a lap. Good at times and quite bad at others. I think Max drives closer to the theoretical maximum of the car more frequently than Check does. That seems like an obvious statement, but it is less about Max somehow extracting "extra" performance, but rather getting the most from the car on a regular basis. It's not like he is extracting performance magically that would be unavailable to others.

This video shows Max vs. Checo in Q1 of Mexico. Max generally just carries more speed through the low speed corners and gets on the gas quicker. Low speed corners take lots of time to navigate. Being just a bit faster in slow sections can really positively impact the lap time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKevuye9j4c

I think most drivers can be fast on a good days. I think the truly great drivers are consistently operating closer to their maximum capability on a more regular basis than others.

Richard

[GTRMagic]

The funny papers keep taking pics of the 2 RBR cars and they don’t always seem to have the same bodywork spec on them.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Richard C

I think race to race, sector to sector Max is generally either excellent or at least good. While Checo can be up and down, or inconsistent over a lap. Good at times and quite bad at others. I think Max drives closer to the theoretical maximum of the car more frequently than Check does. That seems like an obvious statement, but it is less about Max somehow extracting "extra" performance, but rather getting the most from the car on a regular basis. It's not like he is extracting performance magically that would be unavailable to others.

This video shows Max vs. Checo in Q1 of Mexico. Max generally just carries more speed through the low speed corners and gets on the gas quicker. Low speed corners take lots of time to navigate. Being just a bit faster in slow sections can really positively impact the lap time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKevuye9j4c

I think most drivers can be fast on a good days. I think the truly great drivers are consistently operating closer to their maximum capability on a more regular basis than others.

Richard

On your closing statement, Kevin Magnussen's performance would be a good example of where is is on his 'good' days.

[Sandgroper]

Lets face it, teams cant be invincible forever. Hence RBR in this instance

Im sure a few years back we were looking at the same deal with Mercedes and or Ferrari dominating. Lewis had a very very good run.

No panic stations required on who what or why. Teams and performance change.

Life moves on

[BrakeDiegoBrake]

This slow implosion is pretty fun to watch.

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

It might be an unfashionable view but I wonder if Perez is demonstrating the inherent speed of the car and Verstappen is proving quite how fast he is in spite of the car.At the same time,the team may be demonstrating that losing several key personnel has impacted on their rate of development,or implementation of modifications that add speed.

There is a hypothetical "perfect" lap time that a car could achieve. The quality of a driver is how close to that perfection he can achieve. No matter how good a driver is, he can't make a car break the laws of physics. I'd suggest that Max is able to get 99% of perfection while Checo is somewhere down around 95% (and we forum warriors would probably be around 50%!).

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

There is a hypothetical "perfect" lap time that a car could achieve. The quality of a driver is how close to that perfection he can achieve. No matter how good a driver is, he can't make a car break the laws of physics. I'd suggest that Max is able to get 99% of perfection while Checo is somewhere down around 95% (and we forum warriors would probably be around 50%!).

Sometimes, you could almost believe that Mr Senna could..
That Monaco lap over a second ahead of Mr Prost.. and every other time he sat in a car, you never really wondered if it had been maximised in driver performance..

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Sometimes, you could almost believe that Mr Senna could..
That Monaco lap over a second ahead of Mr Prost.. and every other time he sat in a car, you never really wondered if it had been maximised in driver performance..

He certainly maximised the amount he could crash into other drivers.But that’s a different discussion.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

There is a hypothetical "perfect" lap time that a car could achieve. The quality of a driver is how close to that perfection he can achieve. No matter how good a driver is, he can't make a car break the laws of physics. I'd suggest that Max is able to get 99% of perfection while Checo is somewhere down around 95% (and we forum warriors would probably be around 50%!).

50% ? Really ? That much?!

[midgetman]

You're right. You've only got to see that video of Murray Walker trying to get a McLaren to move to see just how difficult it is to even drive an F1 car let alone drive it at speed.

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[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by midgetman

You're right. You've only got to see that video of Murray Walker trying to get a McLaren to move to see just how difficult it is to even drive an F1 car let alone drive it at speed.

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Mr Croft took an Alpine for a punt the other week didnt he..

[midgetman]

I don't know did he? ISTR Richard Hammond struggled with a Benetton at Silverstone Stowe circuit.

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[S griffin]

Originally Posted by midgetman

I don't know did he? ISTR Richard Hammond struggled with a Benetton at Silverstone Stowe circuit.

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I know he tested a Renault, but that didn't end well. Long time ago too.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Mr Croft took an Alpine for a punt the other week didnt he..

Amazed he fitted in it with that massive ego

[Skam85]

Do we have to have a Crofty hate off in every thread now or something?

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Alan52

He certainly maximised the amount he could crash into other drivers.But that’s a different discussion.

And bearing in mind the spirit of the original comment, a pretty poor one.

[flatlandsman]

How on earth did he get in the damn thing, was it the extra wide 95 McLaren with the dies cut away?

[Alfaholic]

Originally Posted by Skam85

Do we have to have a Crofty hate off in every thread now or something?

Especially as it was Ted that did the Alpine thing.

[Adam43]

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Alfaholic

Especially as it was Ted that did the Alpine thing.

Outstanding.

[S griffin]

One swallow doesn’t make a summer, Red Bull are still on the backfoot in terms of performance and probably won’t win again this season. It’s only because others took time to catch up that Max is even in the title fight

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by S griffin

One swallow doesn’t make a summer, Red Bull are still on the backfoot in terms of performance and probably won’t win again this season. It’s only because others took time to catch up that Max is even in the title fight

Verstappen is still in the title fight because he has been scoring points consistently. He has had only one retirement so far this season at Melbourne and apart from that, he has finished no lower than 6th in every race.

Though Brazil was his first win since Spain, he still scored 4 podiums between those 2 wins, with three 2nd places and one 3rd place.

Where it has gone wrong for RBR is with Perez, whose woes started at Monaco and Canada, when he retired in both races. Since then he hasn't finished above 6th place, with 4 finishes outside the points.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I think that they are definitely missing Newey. However, I think that Perez has been losing his touch over the last couple of seasons, not just this year.

'Losing his touch' or a major loss of confidence in the car?
In both 2023 and '24, Perez has started well but gradually dropped away.
In 23 he started very well and media began talking up a championship challenge.
At the time Perez seemed to want to go 'head to head' with Max but he couldn't handle the set ups Max used.

When Albon was at RBR he had a similar problem and last year in an interview he said it was because the car was difficult and if you ran out of road or hit something you never felt you wanted to do that again.

You would avoid that situation and very quickly, once you lose confidence in the car you very quick fall away in race speed because you are tentative in every similar situation. (Ricciardo was a bit like this in '22).

Perez said in Mexico that he had been having difficulty in the braking area for the last several races (lack of feel and response) and it is clearly how he feels about the car. He got a new chassis in Brazil bit it didn't help much.

He would get up to race speed quickly but when it came to qualifying, he never had enough confidence to push the limits of car. He possibly never even explored them much in recent races because he simply doesn't have confidence in the car.

He hasn't forgotten how to drive, he just doesn't have confidence in that car, and after eight months of struggling with the RB20 will be quite happy to see the back of it. That may be why he remains determined to have a go next year with a different car...

Max made the comment after Brazil that the brakes on his car were really good, and he had absolute confidence in the brakes and the way the car responded.
So, what we saw was something that worked really well for Max and he was able to exploit it.

[S griffin]

I think Perez needs to move on. I still rate him a lot, but I feel he's overstayed his time at RBR. I think he's been unlucky against Max too.

It's not an easy team when the pressure is on either. There's been plenty of drivers who have let their head drop in this situation. Perez probably needs a fresh start. He is still on occasion showing what a talented driver he is. It doesn't the car isn't that great. Fair play to Max for keeping his head up. But it could all have been a different story if the others had been up there sooner