[Team] Williams: Do they have a spare tub?

[morninggents]

Yes, the team's performance has been dire since she took over. I doubt she would have lasted in that position in any other team.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by morninggents

I doubt she would have lasted in that position in any other team.

I doubt she would have got in that position in any other team.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by peebee2

I doubt she would have got in that position in any other team.

Didn't Frank Williams appoint her?

[S griffin]

To be fair, anyone would have a tough job taking over from Frank

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Didn't Frank Williams appoint her?

Exactly.

[djr81]

Originally Posted by morninggents

Yes, the team's performance has been dire since she took over. I doubt she would have lasted in that position in any other team.

You mean other than two of the best years they have had in along time?

At the end of the day a lack of money is at the root of the problem.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by djr81

You mean other than two of the best years they have had in along time?

At the end of the day a lack of money is at the root of the problem.

And what caused the lack of money if that is the case? Bad management causes lack of money.

[S griffin]

I think it's a combination of things really. I think she's done her best under difficult circumstances and unfortunately it has meant they have had to take drivers with big wallets at times.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I think it's a combination of things really. I think she's done her best under difficult circumstances and unfortunately it has meant they have had to take drivers with big wallets at times.

She may have done her best. But is 'her' best good enough?

[RED55]

Im not sure its Claire that is the problem , its more likely its the current state of F1 and the money that is spent on fresh air .

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by RED55

Im not sure its Claire that is the problem , its more likely its the current state of F1 and the money that is spent on fresh air .

That doesn't seem to be as much of a problem for other teams though.

[peebee2]

The simple test here is to think if Mercedes would have had the six season double title-winning success they’ve had if she had been at the helm.

Personally I very, very much doubt it.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

That doesn't seem to be as much of a problem for other teams though.

Especially so when you consider the massive additional media exposure they get from having a female team boss.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by peebee2

The simple test here is to think if Mercedes would have had the six season double title-winning success they’ve had if she had been at the helm.

Personally I very, very much doubt it.

Probable, as the management of Mercedes is of an exceptionally high level. You could put many bosses in there that would not emulate what Wolff, Lauda and co have done.

But equally I think if you had Ron Dennis or Frank Williams in there then they would not hit close to the same heights either.

I happen to think Claire has done alright in a difficult situation. Her job is ten times harder than any other down to the lack of cash. It also seems to have been forgotten that Williams were having something of a revival under her before this slump, punching well above their weight.

The technical leadership went badly wrong somewhere but who here honestly envisaged the issues they encountered when they brought in Paddy Lowe to replace the outgoing Pat Symonds?

Fighting at the back is their level with the current situation in F1 with costs. The last two seasons were not good enough, too far off the back, but this season looked potentially like a good step in the right direction.

[S griffin]

Testing times have suggested they are closer to the pace, so that’s a positive sign. With George Russell in the car, he’s bound to drag a bit extra out of it. Remember Hungary qualifying last season?

I wish Claire the best. I agree she’s doing her best under difficult circumstances. Ok she’s no Toto Wolff, but then very few are

[coppice]

Me too . She seems a smart , decent and likable woman doing a job which very few people of either sex can do to a consistently victorious level . But when the likes of Dennis, Chapman , Sauber or Jordan lost form , they didn't attract the same sexist crap which I have seen posted elsewhere about CW .

[bella]

Originally Posted by coppice

Me too . She seems a smart , decent and likable woman doing a job which very few people of either sex can do to a consistently victorious level . But when the likes of Dennis, Chapman , Sauber or Jordan lost form , they didn't attract the same sexist crap which I have seen posted elsewhere about CW .

one more time for the cheap seats in the back...

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by coppice

Me too . She seems a smart , decent and likable woman doing a job which very few people of either sex can do to a consistently victorious level . But when the likes of Dennis, Chapman , Sauber or Jordan lost form , they didn't attract the same sexist crap which I have seen posted elsewhere about CW .

Which posts have been sexist?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by morninggents

Which posts have been sexist?

coppice said 'posted elsewhere' so I'm taking that it means not on this forum.

[chillibowl]

imo, i dont think anyone is being sexist. some dissatisfaction with nepotism which imo is fair enough because sports are supposed to be merit based (even though F1 has a lot of nepotism - actually a lot of sports ownership is based on nepotism).

this is a difficult one though.

usually we measure the smaller budget teams based on their efficiency. Force India is typically considered one of the most efficient teams given their points to dollar spent ratio.

but another way to look at business is to look at the rate of return on investment, and given Williams heritage bonus they were generally making more money then Force India despite spending (marginally) less money i believe.

so from a business point of view, was Williams the better performing team?

of course that all went sideways in the last couple of season as they experienced technical issues and a large decrease in investment as the Stroll family took their money to Force India (presumably because they were already rich they were more interested in points then their ROI).

another way to look at it would be to ponder what would have happened had Toto taken over the team. just a complete assumption but i suspect he would have brought in a manu and re branded the team as points would have mattered to him more then the 'Williams' name.

some may argue that the survival of the Williams name, in whatever capacity, is the real victory...in which case Claire is doing admirably.

for me though, even though i respect what Claire is going through (i also work for a family run business so feel an affinity), but i have to wonder if the heritage bonus made Williams soft.

business is great and all but at the end of the day sports means competition and once your start getting rewards above what merit dictates you stop being a sport team.

[djr81]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

imo, i dont think anyone is being sexist. some dissatisfaction with nepotism which imo is fair enough because sports are supposed to be merit based (even though F1 has a lot of nepotism - actually a lot of sports ownership is based on nepotism).

this is a difficult one though.

usually we measure the smaller budget teams based on their efficiency. Force India is typically considered one of the most efficient teams given their points to dollar spent ratio.

but another way to look at business is to look at the rate of return on investment, and given Williams heritage bonus they were generally making more money then Force India despite spending (marginally) less money i believe.

so from a business point of view, was Williams the better performing team?

of course that all went sideways in the last couple of season as they experienced technical issues and a large decrease in investment as the Stroll family took their money to Force India (presumably because they were already rich they were more interested in points then their ROI).

another way to look at it would be to ponder what would have happened had Toto taken over the team. just a complete assumption but i suspect he would have brought in a manu and re branded the team as points would have mattered to him more then the 'Williams' name.

some may argue that the survival of the Williams name, in whatever capacity, is the real victory...in which case Claire is doing admirably.

for me though, even though i respect what Claire is going through (i also work for a family run business so feel an affinity), but i have to wonder if the heritage bonus made Williams soft.

business is great and all but at the end of the day sports means competition and once your start getting rewards above what merit dictates you stop being a sport team.

You are forgetting (Or ignoring) the minor issue of Force India going bankrupt in 2018. Losses to the tune of 283.5 million pounds.

See here:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/csylt/2.../#24f34ed3452f

Williams failure to make a successful transition from the low drag cars at the start of the current engine formula to the more conventional has precipitated the current issues. As Rob Smedley said in the recent Motorsport Magazine podcast the team that finished 9th in 2019 is still a very good operation...

[Casper]

I have had 3 businesses in my working career and there is one thing I have learned from watching others and that is poor management is always reflected in the bottom line and some people as nice as they are often are in positions that they do not have the skills to be in.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Probable, as the management of Mercedes is of an exceptionally high level. You could put many bosses in there that would not emulate what Wolff, Lauda and co have done.

But equally I think if you had Ron Dennis or Frank Williams in there then they would not hit close to the same heights either.

I happen to think Claire has done alright in a difficult situation. Her job is ten times harder than any other down to the lack of cash. It also seems to have been forgotten that Williams were having something of a revival under her before this slump, punching well above their weight.

The technical leadership went badly wrong somewhere but who here honestly envisaged the issues they encountered when they brought in Paddy Lowe to replace the outgoing Pat Symonds?

Fighting at the back is their level with the current situation in F1 with costs. The last two seasons were not good enough, too far off the back, but this season looked potentially like a good step in the right direction.

Personally, I was unsure about the choice of PL when he joined them. Reason?

When you take someone from a big team like Mercedes, I think it is very hard to really know who is directly responsible for the success, so trying to pluck someone out of that situation in the hope that they can replicate it for you is very hard. In Williams shoes I would have gone for the designer at Force India as a target, used to delivering a good car on a tight budget, used to outsourcing, used to the smaller team environment and working practices.

We have seen in the past quite biggish names that have moved to smaller teams and not being able to make the impact hoped for.

Williams have had a tendancy to put bits on the car that don't work on track, so clearly they have had an ongoing correlation issue that I am sure they focused on in CW's root and branch, ti be fair she did admit they found that many of Williams working practices were outdated.

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by coppice

Me too . She seems a smart , decent and likable woman doing a job which very few people of either sex can do to a consistently victorious level . But when the likes of Dennis, Chapman , Sauber or Jordan lost form , they didn't attract the same sexist crap which I have seen posted elsewhere about CW .

Between being the former boss's daughter to being a woman in a man's world, how much do you think her situation has been made more difficult for reasons beyond her ability? I imagine every sponsor, team boss with options, etc could potentially discount her as not up to the job, as many on here do, more because of how she got her position and for being a woman. So any sponsor or engineer or whatever with options might demand more control, a better deal, play more hardball with her and go elsewhere if they didn't get what they want.

Not that I'm saying they're all sexists or whatever, just that it seems a theme even here, whereits a group of mostly very level headed people to still kind of look at her as a weakness. Maybe Frank did not set her up with a well run ship to begin with, either.

[S griffin]

Monesha of Sauber, did she have the same problems? Hard to tell, because she wasn’t in the main helm for long