[WEC] Porsche GTP / Hypercar: factory and customer

[Stefvh]

They have endurance experience. A little old experience, maybe.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Dario911

Of course, but I think Fassler was not very well experienced in LMP1 before to be a glorious member of Audi Jost...
It all depends from what they think to do in 2014: race to make experience or race to win? Knowing Porsche, I think they are more focused on the second hypotesis...
Then, I would not make on the same car three endurance unexperienced drivers like Heidfeld, Webber and Vernay. They may be fast, but I'm not sure they may compete at the same level of endurance experienced drivers.

P.S.
Heidfeld is a Porsche buyer, at the same way of Webber... If I'm not wrong, he's the owner of a 996 GT2. Is just a casuality?

The line-ups were merely who I think will be picked - not necessarily who will be paired with who.

I might be inclined to split Bernhard and Dumas between the cars if they are doing the bulk of the testing. That way they can help with the baseline set-ups.

I just don't see how Heidfeld won't be a part of this programme. Given the significant Sauber connections now at Weissach, given the vague nature of his schedule post-Le Mans, given he was walking around the Porsche museum snapping pictures last winter.

[Dario911]

According to Bild, Mark Webber has visited Porsche factory in Stuttgart, and has signed with german manufacturer a 3 years contract, instead of 5 years.
Voices about this are becoming more insistent, and I think there's fire under the smoke...
I've read about a possible return of Porsche in Formula 1 with Sauber, from 2015. Does anyone of you know something more about this? Porsche would like to back in singleseater world as engine supplier, with new V6 turbo engine. It's not a bad idea... Porsche management has declared they wanna be protagonist in the largest number of classes as possible. What about?

[Dario911]

Porsche is hiring a lot of former-F1 engineers, such as Enzinger (Head of F1 Test and Race Organization at BMW Motorsport), Alex Hitzinger (Head of Advanced Technologies’ for Red Bull F1 and Scuderia Toro Rosso) and Mike Krack and Urs Kuratle (race engineers at BMW Sauber). Then, I've heard some voices about a secret training of some Porsche mechanics and technicians with McLaren, in formula 1 team.
Are these voices or is here something real is in the air?

[Spyderman]

I pray every night that these rumors are false.

[Dario911]

Porsche will never race in Le Mans and Formula 1 at the same time. It's too much expensive. If they have to make a choice, I hope is to race in Le Mans. Formula 1 maybe an interesting alternative to endurance, but Porsche is the symbol of endurance, and it must remain the most important focus for the brand.
Formula 1? Mmmh... too much politics and too little sport. Le Mans, all the way!

@Spyderman: let pray not only in the night, but in the day, too.

[porman]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

I pray every night that these rumors are false.

You and me both!

They would have to commit far more resources then they did back in TAG-Turbo/Arrow days. Porsche are very good at making money. If they can sign 1 or two engine deals in F1 they might just do it. But I hope not.

In my perfect world they would build up their team at Weissach to an efficient organization to campaign the LMP1 and RSR. They shouldn't bite off more than they can chew.

Given that they have become the master marketers, failure is not an option. Hopefully parent company VW understands this as well.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Dario911

Formula 1? Mmmh... too much politics and too little sport. Le Mans, all the way!

With the way that the ACO has been played to ensure Diesel and factory domination over the last near decade, it's pretty hard to say LM itself isn't run through politics as well.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

I think I read somewhere that there will be 2 cars.

Maybe here (old link, from the Webber thread), but in the context, that doesn't specifically rule out 3rd car.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Dario911

Porsche is hiring a lot of former-F1 engineers, such as Enzinger (Head of F1 Test and Race Organization at BMW Motorsport), Alex Hitzinger (Head of Advanced Technologies’ for Red Bull F1 and Scuderia Toro Rosso) and Mike Krack and Urs Kuratle (race engineers at BMW Sauber).

I think more like hired since these reports are from October and clearly these hirings were for the LMP program: http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ru...igns-f1-people

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by deggis

Maybe here (old link, from the Webber thread), but in the context, that doesn't specifically rule out 3rd car.

Yes that was it! Thanks.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by porman

You and me both!

They would have to commit far more resources then they did back in TAG-Turbo/Arrow days. Porsche are very good at making money. If they can sign 1 or two engine deals in F1 they might just do it. But I hope not.

In my perfect world they would build up their team at Weissach to an efficient organization to campaign the LMP1 and RSR. They shouldn't bite off more than they can chew.

Given that they have become the master marketers, failure is not an option. Hopefully parent company VW understands this as well.

+1000

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Dario911

Porsche will never race in Le Mans and Formula 1 at the same time. It's too much expensive. If they have to make a choice, I hope is to race in Le Mans. Formula 1 maybe an interesting alternative to endurance, but Porsche is the symbol of endurance, and it must remain the most important focus for the brand.
Formula 1? Mmmh... too much politics and too little sport. Le Mans, all the way!

@Spyderman: let pray not only in the night, but in the day, too.

I'm praying right now.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

With the way that the ACO has been played to ensure Diesel and factory domination over the last near decade, it's pretty hard to say LM itself isn't run through politics as well.

And it's worse in a way, because the LM politics rarely make the headlines, so the politics are much more hidden.

[Dario911]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

I'm praying right now.

Good job, mate. We are two of us (at least...)!

[Dario911]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

With the way that the ACO has been played to ensure Diesel and factory domination over the last near decade, it's pretty hard to say LM itself isn't run through politics as well.

You're right. ACO makes a lot of policy, but I was referring to the race results modified by strange decisions, as happened in formula 1 (team orders, penalized overtakes, spy-stories, strange differences between the drivers...). I was not referring to the politics intended as "rules".
From this point of view, ACO is second to none!

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Dario911

You're right. ACO makes a lot of policy, but I was referring to the race results modified by strange decisions, as happened in formula 1 (team orders, penalized overtakes, spy-stories, strange differences between the drivers...). I was not referring to the politics intended as "rules".
From this point of view, ACO is second to none!

Of course I think in Sportscars we would have no issues with Team Orders, as this is more of a team sport.

[Mal]

I guess that's what F1 & ACO have in common - they are both dictatorships

[vincegail]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Of course I think in Sportscars we would have no issues with Team Orders, as this is more of a team sport.

I DID have an issue with Peugeot's team orders in 2011.... I found them having nothing to do with sport/sportmanship at all.
Otherwise, when one car of a team clearly has the benefit over the other, it is only logical that the latter lets the former pass as easily as possible of course. No problem with that at all!

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by vincegail

I DID have an issue with Peugeot's team orders in 2011.... I found them having nothing to do with sport/sportmanship at all.

That was a bit excessive for sure, and not really within the spirit of endurance racing IMO.

[Mechanic Z]

Originally Posted by vincegail

I DID have an issue with Peugeot's team orders in 2011.... I found them having nothing to do with sport/sportmanship at all.
Otherwise, when one car of a team clearly has the benefit over the other, it is only logical that the latter lets the former pass as easily as possible of course. No problem with that at all!

Absolutely agree. Peugeot did not earn any respect by their team orders.

[The Badger]

Neither did Vettel !!!

Team orders should be banned . From a bookies point of view its race rigging , end of .

[Mechanic Z]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Neither did Vettel !!!

When was this?

[The Badger]

2nd last GP , when he overtook Webber to take the win .

Team orders , are in effect race rigging . How do you legaly justify that then ? Why is it illegal in horse racing , and legal in motorsports ?

Just in my opinion ..... I completely disagree with team orders , it is supposed to be racing after all , or have I missed something . I realize why its done , but don't agree with it at all .

[Dario911]

I would have loved to see Collard in a Porsche LMP1 racing in Le Mans. He's always been one of the most notable Porsche drivers of the last years. Has won so much in the glorious 911, and at the same time has a very good experience in LMP1, having raced with Pescarolo several times in Le Mans, as well as in many championships. I think he would have been a good experienced addition to Porsche crew, but I don't think we may really hope for this.