History of a Lola T492 Sports 2000 chassis?

[SAMD]

Originally Posted by 911thillclimber

The new 3 piece bodies are great, fancy one of those this Xmas, but should it be Kelly Girl Green!?
I think burnt Orange, a great Porsche 911 colour is better.

Oh man! the Orange and the Green eh!

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by 911thillclimber

.............. The new 3 piece bodies are great, fancy one of those this Xmas, but should it be Kelly Girl Green!?
I think burnt Orange, a great Porsche 911 colour is better.......

Reckon you should have 2 sets of body, one green and t'other orange, randomly swap them during the year. Confuse the hell out of historians in 25 years time - if it was hard for you it should be hard for them

[Clive Brown]

Karmann Ghia bodywork as a nod to the car's Special Saloon history, finished in Kelly Green in deference to T492/HU62.

[911thillclimber]

This car can always raise a few comments!
My hillclimb buddies absolutely hate the fab Ghia body, no idea why.

The Kelly Girl Green now I've seen it for real is not the most fetching shade of Green...
Even Kermit's looks better.

Burnt Orange if I go for a new Lola Body, 3 piece would be a real treat after the clumsy 2 piece. Its front section is a real pain.

I know where there is a nice hillclimb Mk8 with double width gears for sale with Cam and pawl LSD.
And there are pinto's everywhere.
Even better if it had twin downdrafts!!

Dennis has been in touch congratulating the final discovery of the HU 62 number which is a nice touch.

[ogits]

Possibilities....
Air leak? - does adjusting the mixture affect the colour?
When you mention #6 spark as different - presumably that is due to mixture - can you feed a little more fuel in via spraycan down the throat or around the base etc. and see any changes.
Are the valves opening fully - worn lobe/s?

[Clive Brown]

To eliminate the distributor from the equation, why not remove it, turn the motor through 360°, put the distributor back in, and move each plug lead through 180° on the distributor cap?

If the fault is intrinsic to #6 cylinder on the motor itself, then the misfire will remain on that cylinder. On the other hand, if it is the distributor or cap, then the problem will migrate to whichever cylinder is diametrically opposite #6 in the firing order on a Porker flat six.

[911thillclimber]

Thank you both for your ideas.

I have tried a cap that is at least 15 years old new rotor and a new cap with same rotor arm. #6 always weak, ie no black soot on plug.

The spark viewed through the glass of the Colourtune is erratic compared to (say) #3.
This means the flame literally dissapears to black then re-appears.
If I turn the idle mixture screw in 1/4 from blue, the flame goes very intermittent to black and the engine back fires on the 4/5/6 side of the engine.
Turn back 1/4 turn, blue again, another 1/4 turn out yellow flame.

This reaction is exactly the same on all other cylinders.

Firing order of the flat 6 is 1/6/2/4/3/5
#1 fires well, #6 erratic, #2 etc all fire well (ie the same burn on the plugs except #6) and all cylinders are blue mixture.

How can a spark go missing erratically on this distributor?
There is no radial play on the shaft.

I might try setting the rotor arm to #6 fire on the dist and see if the point gap is different to the others. The dist cam looks good.ie 6 lobes.

The cams in the engine are pristine by the way.

[ogits]

Agree with Clive re retiming it on another cyl. I'd assumed it was electronic ign. Do you have another complete distributor to try? The shaft may be slightly bent or the cam worn unevenly. This is where a scope would help. Check the gap on each lobe.

[911thillclimber]

How does a dist shaft get bent though?
Take your point about the cam lob on #6 in the dist.
If that was worn then the spark would arrive regularly at the wrong time?

This 'mis-fire' is erratic.

Will get the dist out and measure.
Have no spare as they are actually quite rare nowadays.

[SAMD]

Originally Posted by 911thillclimber

How does a dist shaft get bent though?
Take your point about the cam lob on #6 in the dist.
If that was worn then the spark would arrive regularly at the wrong time?

This 'mis-fire' is erratic.

Will get the dist out and measure.
Have no spare as they are actually quite rare nowadays.

A bent dist shaft is not unheard of though Graham. It may not be that of course, but given the circumstances it must be a very worthwile thing to try. I would presume the shaft must get bent in an accident. Possibly on the track or if the engine started life in a road car in an RTA. All highly possible. I would think the spark is arriving at almost the right time but under load its shortcomings are exposed.

[ogits]

The shaft/bearings, advance/retard components and cam lobes all wear and get sloppy, possibly causing points to not open sufficiently at times. A scope & timing light can help with all this. An aftermarket elec ign conversion can help.

This is crude but worth a try. At idle, pull a lead off each plug in turn and see what sort of spark you get between the end of the lead and the head. Should get a fat blue spark, 1/4" ish. Try an old plug with the gap opened up to 1/4" or something close.

Also turn your shed lights off and see if there are any sparks in the wrong places. Spray the leads etc. with water and feel for leaks. You might like to get a friend to help with this one, pref without a pacemaker.

[911thillclimber]

!!
I can think of a few people at work who I would like to help me on that part of the exercise!

The spark at the plug against the engine is a VERY fat blue thunderbolt. Could weld with it.
I have tried points-free system before the points. We changed to points to get rid of a 'hesitation' in the engine at 4500 that showed on the rolling road monitor.

If the base plate, the weights in the dist were suspect the problem would be across all cylinders not just #6?

I think i will have the dist out for a closer inspection.

[Clive Brown]

If you are going to take the distributor out anyway, you might as well try my idea from post #1356. If it is the distributor, the engine should then misfire on #3, as the diametrically-opposed cylinder in the firing order. If it is the cap, lead, or rotor arm, then the misfire will stay on #6.

Suck, squeeze, bang, and blow.... simples!

[Clive Brown]

Wrong! If it's the cap or rotor arm, the misfire would also transfer to#3. It would, of course, also transfer to #3 if the fault lies in the distributor.

Idiot.

[911thillclimber]

I'm not sure the moderators might smack you for such a sequence!

Just spent more time with my little wonder car..

With the aid of an old strobe, the spark beat on #6 is the same as #1, the lead next to #6 on the dist.

Ran the engine and following a tip from elsewhere sprayed the base of the 6 carb cokes and manifold bases in turn. Came to #6 and the engine not changed dramatically.
None of the others changed note at all.

turned the hot engine off to see a fine plume of smoke from the manifold-to-head thermal breaker fitted on these engines. A definite leak in the gasket.

Smeared a run of black silicon over the leak (gasket obviously not right).

Thought if a leak I'd best check the mixture in #6, but ran the engine a bit to see how it felt. Much better it seems (wishful thinking?).
Took #6 plug out and it is BLACK for the first time ever! As black as the others!!

Colour tune shows nice blue flame.

Some progress.

Next issue is the pulsing exhaust.

Running engine: if you place each gloved hand about 3" from the silencer outlets you can feel 4/5/6 side nice and smooth, 1/2/3 side has a definite pulse to it.

Round 2 about to start!

[ogits]

[QUOTE=911thillclimber;3062675] smack .....

Came to #6 and the engine not changed dramatically.
None of the others changed note at all.

======== Do you mean note ??? or not ??? =======

Air leaks !! Aaaaarrrggghhh.

( Do you have a brake servo/booster? They often lead into one cyl rather than several cyls. )

Seems like it is getting closer....

----------------------------------

Let it run for a few minutes at minimum (idle/warm up/steady fast idle/etc. before trying anything new. Always try to have a base line.

Please try to display the ign (revs/misfire/etc. on a scope. You will learn a lot more than you thought possible.

See also thread re: torque/power/TV etc. With a simple scope you can see variations in required ignition voltage due to mixture, plug gap, poor HT components, low compression, poor valves etc. and also cranking amps, ign/battery/coil/switch volts/amps etc.

Much cheaper for you to check out stuff in your shed than paying Dynoman to tell you about your own car.

Pulsing exhaust.......
er.... mixed thoughts.

At idle/closed throttle minor variations make a big difference.

Did you get my pm re infra-red sensors (handheld - £50 ish). Poor/rough idle doesn't necessarily mean poor mixture on load.

You think remote/ether diagnostics is hard work ?? Try a deaf granny on the phone with the third clutch in a year.

Rossi has it easy.

When are you out next?

Next week, NEC, Tues-Thurs, garage stuff show. Not sure if Pico are there but there are plenty of peeps with good diagnostic gear.

I can lend you a basic 2 channel Pico set. Might take you a while to learn about it though.

Pico do a pressure sensor that clips into your exh pipe and tells you how crap your valves/rings/ign/friends are.

Apologies, I'll have to miss Barbon. Swmbo is having a big birthday.

Happy daze.

[911thillclimber]

Things like pulses in exhausts drive me nuts.

The engine should be even on all 6.
I'm off to by a snazzy carb balancer to check all the chokes out. The servo take off 9blanked and unused) is on choke # 5 only.

The NOTE of the engine changed when #6 sprayed. The leak was very small, surprised at the effect it had.

Prescott hillclimb next weekend with Dyno man attending.
Bet the bloody thing goes quiet or breaks the box again...

The rollers he has has a 'scope' and he told me all the sparks are there (he now could be right!) and all the mixtures are to spec.
This guy really is the porsche specialist in the country. Builds historic Le Mans engines for Group 6 racers etc.
I can't check the car until on track, so the fix may be done for all I know today.

I'm entered for Barbon. Fab hill but first time in the Lola.

Barbon and my best car!

[chunterer]

Can I just say I think it's fab that you've managed to keep this thread going 911, I am not too clever on technical nuts and bolts stuff so it has actually been fairly educational for me (particularly if I ever buy a Lola s2000 and shove a flat 6 engine in it!).

[ogits]

Pulses in exhaust - probably just that side thottle is not open as much. Easy way is just pull a plug lead and check the revs drop. Do that on all cyls. If a cyl isn't doing much work there won't be much revs drop. You can do this without much worry on a points/condensor system unless it is an extra high output system where it leads to other components taking the strain. If your dynoman is happy with the distributor it should be fine, just check the gap occasionally. He will have seen the traces under load.

The small changes in throttle/mixture etc. won't make much difference at WOT though make the idling nicer. You should be able to balance the carbs with a piece of hose down the carb throat and listening at the other end. Almost anything will do - 2' of garden hose is ok, just don't block the whole throat off.

[911thillclimber]

I owe everything to 10-10ths; helping me on the car's number and to allow contact with all the people who have helped me so very much to get there. The car build/race along the way has added a bit of variety and again supported my novice efforts.(you all know I'm not too good at this stuff!)

I think/hope it has amused some and if so, so much the better.

What a thread it is, so much due to contributors and the very existence of this car despite all the efforts to stay hidden!

Bloody thing!!

Ogits:

I will try to pull the plugs to see what happens (apart from my lights going out as a result of a belt off the thing)
I will re-live my apprentice-with-cars period with my Spitfire's twin SU's and listen to the hissing! Some things never change....
I'm a bit deafer nowadays, so will also by a posh Synchrometer to complete my DIY tuning tool draw.

I should have stuck to Model Aeroplanes.

[Kevin Cooke]

Originally Posted by 911thillclimber

Burnt Orange if I go for a new Lola Body, 3 piece would be a real treat after the clumsy 2 piece. Its front section is a real pain.

I know where there is a nice hillclimb Mk8 with double width gears for sale with Cam and pawl LSD.
And there are pinto's everywhere.
Even better if it had twin downdrafts!!

Graham

Isn't burnt orange 'Bluto Orange' as per Vic Cohens 993 GT3, lovely colour but you'll not be the 1st 492 in that colour as Peter R's new body is in that colour.

Also don't forget BDA's fit, my car had one when it was on the Hills.

Re the wheel offsets I'll ask Peter next time I talk to him.

Regards

Kevin

[911thillclimber]

True, but better than Kelly Girl Green!
I thought Peter's bodies are very good and a great fit as well, but those front arches would not tolerate my width wheels, 10" front 14" rear....

Revolution are about to make from new tools the Lola spec wheels!
They will be doing bolt-on and centre locks, but mine are March F2 design so a bit special.
I think they will do them to my drawings.

A Cosworth engine is worth more than I am, so way out of budget!

I know where there is a 'pro-built' Duratec and a hillclimb double width gearbox (Mk8), for £4500 the set.....

To my little problem in the garage:

Made some more progress!


Got down to further basics with some truely hi-tek instrumentation.

Ran the engine up to hot, disconnected the two carbs from each other so to set the side-to-side balance.

With a 2 foot length of garden hose pipe (that is the hi-tek bit) I listened to the hiss on each choke.

I doubt one was the same as it's partners..

By a tweak to each needle valve I got the hisses in balance to my left ear, not too sure about carb bank to carb bank but we will see later as I've ordered a posh Synchronometer for these big 50mm carbs.

To settle the inbalance of the exhaust flow I tickled the idle screw until the 'volume' or velocity out of each ex pipe felt the same (2nd piece of hi-tek, the palm of my hand) Settled, the temperature of each pipe feels the same too, another indication of balance i hope.

Pulled the plugs and ALL are the very same colour.(black)

Tick over now quite nice ( this engine is barely on flexible mounts but thin wall stiff poly bushes) and the blip of the throttle truely Boy Racer level, very sharp and dies off instantly.

I think I have this as good as I can get it now.
Proof will be at Prescott next weekend where hopefully you will not know its me up the hill farting all the way.(except in the pilot's seat )

When the balancer comes mid week it will be interesting to see just how even the garden tube method really is.

[Kevin Cooke]

Graham,

The wheels on my car are Image 3 piece with forged centres , a bit heavy but really strong.

Regards

Kevin

[911thillclimber]

Thank you, they are 20 mins down the road from me!

Going to leave the car alone now until Prescott next weekend. Have a tough set of class mates, it will be hard to not be last in class.

If it goes up and comes down 5 times I will be chuffed.

[911thillclimber]