[WEC] 2015 WEC Discussion

[Coach Ep]

Why would Sebring need upgrading if it was good enough to be the first ever official WEC race in history (March 2012)? That's only a little over 3 years ago now, not decades. And there are sufficient ways to 'satisfy the corporate needs' as well, Audi brings a huge tent for their traditional pre 12H test, Porsche et all can easily do the same, the track can host as many corrals as you want and on top of that I'm sure all vip's will enjoy the pleasant Florida climate when they plan the event in the right time of year, not in summer but late fall could work, early October for instance.

Since running events together with regional series is outlawed these days and WEC also has hardly any interest in attracting guest entries, the 12H is not an option.

A stand alone event would be the only solution - but a highlight on the calendar nevertheless!

Audi, Porsche, Toyota, Ferrari and now Nissan plus Ford all have big interests in the US and have great heritage at Sebring - much like they have at Le Mans. If only they would collectively push for it....

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by Snips1

They (WEC) do a very good job. Why should Audi, Porsche, Toyota, Nissan, Aston Martin, Ferrari spend millions of euro on their factory teams, just to race at a track which is at club level facility at best? That's not how you want to show your product to potential customers/investors or business partners..

Because potential customers/investors or business partners might be impressed by packed spectator areas more than two camels in a desert staring at the squeaky clean circuit through the catch fencing located so far away from the actual track it would take a ballistic missile to reach it. Just a hunch.

Unless, of course, FIA/AsCO are willing to do a Bernie and alienate millions of fans, real sponsors and car manufactures by trying to make a quick buck off the vanity of autocrats and oil tycoons, which is where at least the Europe-based sports car racing seems to be going, unfortunately.

[deggis]

Everyone is beating the dead horse so hard that that let me remind that the news links were about Montreal or Mexico. Apparently completely unteresting prospects.

[August]

Originally Posted by deggis

Everyone is beating the dead horse so hard that that let me remind that the news links were about Montreal or Mexico. Apparently completely unteresting prospects.

Montreal might be cool, a bit different of a track.

Tilkefied AHR doesn't sound so exciting, though if it happens and gets a good crowd, I'm willing to change my opinion.

[Deleted]

One has been greatly asphaltized in recent years (also 6 hour race there doesn't really make sense???), the other tilke'd. And even if they were the most interesting venues in the world, it says in that rubbish article that the second NA race is "couple of years away" anyway. For some reason.

Greatly agree with August on WEC calendar actually looking more annoying F1. At least in Uncle Bernards circus you only can choose the lamefied Grade 1 parking lots now, WEC could choose any Grade 2 but just don't want to. In F1 calendar there's also more tracks that are historic and relevant for that series (whatever you might think of them) than there are in WEC.

Must be so very hard for Audi, Porche and Nissan to test at Sebring in spring in tents without gigantic garages and hospitality suites. Let alone for Audi to race there every year except once between 99-2013. However did they manage?

So nice to hear the oh so great "series doesnt run in your favorite track" argument again from you too TF. It always works so brilliantly.

Anyway I do realize that this is a repeated lame duck discussion.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by deggis

Everyone is beating the dead horse so hard that that let me remind that the news links were about Montreal or Mexico. Apparently completely unteresting prospects.

Indeed. And it's once again proof that the FIA/ACO have no interest to cater the needs of US fans.

Mexico City is as appealing to US sportscar fans as Interlagos, Montreal might be a bit more convenient for the those in the North-East area.

Just imagine Spa got replaced by the Slovakia Ring (or similar) and you'll understand.

[Deleted]

But Slovakia Ring would be great because you must start from scratch in order to create a new fan base and grow it there slowly from year to year in order to bring the "spirit of endurance" and "road to Le Mans" to this vital market zone that our manufacturers so dearly support and also I heard there's big swimming pool on the roof for VIPs so it's all for the better.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Chiana

One has been greatly asphaltized in recent years (also 6 hour race there doesn't really make sense???)

How does it not "really make sense"? How does any 6 hour race anywhere really make sense?

I think you need to revisit some recent onboard from there. There is asphalt at the end of hairpins and T1, I think those have been there for a long time and other than those, the walls and trees are always close so there is not even space for more extensions and relatively there is probably more grass left than at Le Mans. In my opinion scenery wise one of the best and most unique circuits in the world.

But I guess it just automatically sucks because it isn't Sebring.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by deggis

How does it not "really make sense"? How does any 6 hour race anywhere really make sense?

I think you need to revisit some recent onboard from there. There is asphalt at the end of hairpins and T1, I think those have been there for a long time and other than those, the walls and trees are always close so there is not even space for more extensions and relatively there is probably more grass left than at Le Mans. In my opinion scenery wise one of the best and most unique circuits in the world.

But I guess it just automatically sucks because it isn't Sebring.

Given that I always was a fan of "shorter" races for regular WSC races, like say 500km instead of 6 hour, no I don't know how it makes sense, but it can make even less sense for some events than others. 6 hours at Nurburgring isn't weird, 6 hours at some parkland island raceway in the middle of city doesn't really bring a bell.

And umm
1991 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Auv-0B2QRgY (all green except T10 mild asphaltized)
1999 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AS0G65THys (light widening asphalt extensions + T10 widely asphaltized)
2003 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdSwtdyc7Z0 (further widening asphalt extensions + T1 asphaltized, T12-T13 asphaltized)
2008 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Pb-ODY0joY (further widening asphalt extensions + T2 asphaltized)
2012 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23uOt_sF7sY (further widening asphalt extensions + T6 asphaltized)
2015 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIRmOHVq3Wk (further widening asphalt extensions + T8-9 asphaltized)

Now that might not be huge levels in comparison to some other places, but remember that island is (mostly) for park/street purposes isn't it? It's not supposed to be asphaltized? I mean they haven't bulldogged Albert Park yet, somehow. And obviously in North American standards all of this is pretty substantial.

Anyway I do agree that it's not even yet to the Le Mans levels of sanitation, but I think I've 'discussed' about that at length already...

I like the scenery too, but if I were to use that as basis for liking circuit certain posters here would hang me for saying that and shouting it's the track itself that matters, not surroundings

As for the final sentence... what a load of crap I'm sorry.

[Adam43]

That just sucks.

[Snips1]

It's great that the WEC are looking at races in Mexico or Canada.

[seanyb505]

I don't disagree. It's interesting they are looking when answers are there, just WEC is ignoring them. Of the two listed, Montreal would seem to give better access to more markets than Mexico.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Adam43

That just sucks.

Sorry!

[Adam43]

It's not your fault things just get worse and worse all the time.

[Deleted]

Right

Some incorrect links in that post I noticed but since I cannot edit anymore because of the timelimit, one can just google appropriate years from onboard anyway

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Given that I always was a fan of "shorter" races for regular WSC races, like say 500km instead of 6 hour, no I don't know how it makes sense, but it can make even less sense for some events than others. 6 hours at Nurburgring isn't weird, 6 hours at some parkland island raceway in the middle of city doesn't really bring a bell.

"At some..." right. Amazing how much nostalgia plays a role (and in Nurburgring's case, most of that history is because of entirely different track). Montreal may have just a 1-race pedigree but we're not talking about China or some Middle-East contry, and Mosport has ancient history with WSC so a Canadian round isn't a new thing that way if you want to put weight to that.

And umm
1991 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Auv-0B2QRgY (all green except T10 mild asphaltized)
1999 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AS0G65THys (light widening asphalt extensions + T10 widely asphaltized)
2003 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdSwtdyc7Z0 (further widening asphalt extensions + T1 asphaltized, T12-T13 asphaltized)
2008 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Pb-ODY0joY (further widening asphalt extensions + T2 asphaltized)
2012 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23uOt_sF7sY (further widening asphalt extensions + T6 asphaltized)
2015 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIRmOHVq3Wk (further widening asphalt extensions + T8-9 asphaltized)

Pretty meticulous research, but looks like I just can't get myself to care enough about all the minor extensions when overall the configuration has remained the same and very green.

As for the final sentence... what a load of crap I'm sorry.

Explain the apparent objection to Montreal round then. My rationale being that Montreal would pretty much seal the fate of the mostly fantasy Sebring or RA sounds.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Chiana

... certain posters here would hang me for saying that ...

We're all very much looking forward to your execution party!

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by deggis

"At some..." right. Amazing how much nostalgia plays a role (and in Nurburgring's case, most of that history is because of entirely different track). Montreal may have just a 1-race pedigree but we're not talking about China or some Middle-East contry, and Mosport has ancient history with WSC so a Canadian round isn't a new thing that way if you want to put weight to that.

You are taking single words out of sentences and making cases of them. 'Some' was a filler word used to describe the location of the track in this city. Just as Nurburgring was random example that brought to mind, I could have used almost any permanent purposefully built race track (or whatever they're called). Even the '6 hour' wasn't really the point in the initial post. What I'm really driving at, is that I don't personally think 6 hour event is gonna fly in the middle of Montreal?

First off. In the past the only other weekend that actually has happened there besides F1 has been the NASCAR Nationwide weekend, supported by NASCAR support series and (=including ) Grand-Am. They had dozens of Canadian drivers there and obviously NCTS. But when Sprint Cup refused to come and the whole thing fall apart, the event was no more.

So in that grounds, the chances of booking off weekend for WEC only with maybe some random Porsche Cup or whatever would probably fare as terribly as Bahrain does crowds and interest wise. If they paired up with proper feature series in the other hand, and maybe even - I don't know - didn't hold themselves as the weekend headliner all the time, they could get pretty good deal going on. But 6 hour race pretty much narrows it all down if you cannot compromise and have shorter events anywhere! Can you schedule 6 hour race, all the practice sessions and proper support series around 3 days, with city noise/traffic/time limits?

I also think the fact that the circuit hasn't resurrected it's second event of the year tells that maybe they don't have the budget to organize it. It does surely cost to make the island functionable after all doesn't it? Does WEC want to share costs...? Do they just want the money themselves?

Anyway if they do want to go to Canada, it's not like they have a choice of other venue, just like they don't have at US. Right? Right?

Pretty meticulous research, but I can't get myself to care enough about all the minor extensions when overall the configuration has remained the same and very green.

On map, the overall configuration of 2015 Paul Ricard looks very familiar to 1970 Paul Ricard too

Explain the apparent objection to Montreal round then.

I still don't think that comment of yours made sense in regards to this but

I would be more welcoming for Montreal if it wasn't the only out of selected pool that's even being considered. And that is exclusion of Grade 2 by law that doesn't exist. They can't even consider them anymore.

Gerard Neveu 2014
“We know that in the United States there’s not a lot of options for us and for the style of racing we have,” he said. “Historically you can say Sebring, Petit Le Mans and Laguna Seca were the logical places to welcome endurance races. But we know that it’s technically impossible [now].

All lies of course.

Let's play a stupid game shall we? Be honest please.

If this were to magically happen in North America next year:
Cota, Indy GP, Mexico and Montreal would all be under temporary maintenance or repairing tornado damage or shut down or whatever.

Would the ACO actually hold a WEC race in America in one of the Grade 2 tracks (that they are fully certified to race on), or just skip the continent and have replacement race in India or whatever else grey and luxurious Tilkering?

Case 1) If this would prevent WEC from going to North America for one year
Case 2) If this would prevent WEC from going to North America for two to three years

So?

(didn't put Case 3 of "indefinitely" since then someone probably would just ask Tilke to build new Grade 1 and ACO would wait )

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

We're all very much looking forward to your execution party!

At least before that, allow me to tell which of the other members here are witches and in league with the Devil

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Can you schedule 6 hour race, all the practice sessions and proper support series around 3 days, with city noise/traffic/time limits?

I also think the fact that the circuit hasn't resurrected it's second event of the year tells that maybe they don't have the budget to organize it. It does surely cost to make the island functionable after all doesn't it? Does WEC want to share costs...? Do they just want the money themselves?

Anyway if they do want to go to Canada, it's not like they have a choice of other venue, just like they don't have at US. Right? Right?

I would be more welcoming for Montreal if it wasn't the only out of selected pool that's even being considered. And that is exclusion of Grade 2 by law that doesn't exist. They can't even consider them anymore.

Gerard Neveu 2014
“We know that in the United States there’s not a lot of options for us and for the style of racing we have,” he said. “Historically you can say Sebring, Petit Le Mans and Laguna Seca were the logical places to welcome endurance races. But we know that it’s technically impossible [now].

If this were to magically happen in North America next year:
Cota, Indy GP, Mexico and Montreal would all be under temporary maintenance or repairing tornado damage or shut down or whatever.

Would the ACO actually hold a WEC race in America in one of the Grade 2 tracks (that they are fully certified to race on), or just skip the continent and have replacement race in India or whatever else grey and luxurious Tilkering?

I think those are the exact issues Neveu has with Montreal right now and if they're not cleared or if there aren't solid guarantees put in place in the next couple of months, I'm sure he'll be in Mexico City for the F1 GP negotiating a deal for a WEC race in 2016 or 2017.

Mosport is the obvious alternative in Canada but it's been disqualified for the same 'technical' reasons as Sebring, Road Atlanta, Road America and Laguna Seca (shouldn't we add Watkins Glen and Mid-Ohio to that list?) in the US...

And has WEC ever cared about support series?

If all grade 1 (or former grade 1) options in the US are blocked they'll probably do both Mexico City and Montreal or sign a deal to run at Daytona (which apparently has to undergo some safety updates anyway...).

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Chiana

One has been greatly asphaltized in recent years (also 6 hour race there doesn't really make sense???), the other tilke'd. And even if they were the most interesting venues in the world, it says in that rubbish article that the second NA race is "couple of years away" anyway. For some reason.

Greatly agree with August on WEC calendar actually looking more annoying F1. At least in Uncle Bernards circus you only can choose the lamefied Grade 1 parking lots now, WEC could choose any Grade 2 but just don't want to. In F1 calendar there's also more tracks that are historic and relevant for that series (whatever you might think of them) than there are in WEC.

Must be so very hard for Audi, Porche and Nissan to test at Sebring in spring in tents without gigantic garages and hospitality suites. Let alone for Audi to race there every year except once between 99-2013. However did they manage?

So nice to hear the oh so great "series doesnt run in your favorite track" argument again from you too TF. It always works so brilliantly.

Anyway I do realize that this is a repeated lame duck discussion.

Its not an argument. Its a fact. Once you learn to accept it they want 'f1 tracks', you can get on with enjoying the series instead of wishing. I remember talking about the impossible to my high school gym instructor and he simply told me "wish in one hand, s--- in the other, see which one fills up faster.."

[Pandamasque]

I wonder why nobody's willing to race at Otodrom Istambul or better amidst the Mongolian steppe at the F1-level facility in the dead city of Ordos.

PS: Once you say "once you learn to accept that..." not only you're more than likely to be wrong, but you come off as an arrogant *whatever in the other hand*.

[Mr Pink]

Originally Posted by TF110

Its not an argument. Its a fact. Once you learn to accept it they want 'f1 tracks', you can get on with enjoying the series instead of wishing. I remember talking about the impossible to my high school gym instructor and he simply told me "wish in one hand, s--- in the other, see which one fills up faster.."

I don't agree with this at all.
The casual fans probably don't care what circuits are raced on but some of us do, a lot. Why should we roll over and die instead of using what (very) little power we've got to try to affect what choices are made?

And I'm going to beat the dead horse some more. Looking past the actual circuits, am I the only one who sees an advantage in it self in choosing circuits where F1 doesn't race? For most people F1 would still be the main event of the year by a lot and then there's "those Le Mans cars". But if they go to say, Brno or Mosport, WEC would be the main event. There are so many nice circuits around the world that could easily host great race weekends, why choose the ones where you have to compete against a commercially superior oponent?

Oh, and I do enjoy watching the whole WEC season. A lot!

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by TF110

Its not an argument. Its a fact. Once you learn to accept it they want 'f1 tracks', you can get on with enjoying the series instead of wishing. I remember talking about the impossible to my high school gym instructor and he simply told me "wish in one hand, s--- in the other, see which one fills up faster.."

With this analogy we would still have slavery. And monarch dictator kings leading Europe. And women couldn't vote or have proper rights. And and and. Because if everyone always accept things as they are, nothing ever changes. Sure there are many things that you just do need to live with it, like your parents dying or you getting cancer or whatever where there is no real choice of anything, but that's not all. There is liberty of speech, liberty of doing things your way, liberty of thinking against the norm.

What if the fact was that for next year, the FIA said Circuit de la Sarthe was too dangerous for race cars and ACO would have to relocate Le Mans if they still want to keep the name So they would choose Abu Dhabi. The Le Mans 24 Hours at Abu Dhabi. With 35 WEC entrans only allowed, and maximum of 5 "wildcard" entries selected by the ACO. I guess you would simply have to accept it, no point in wishing for the better or remembering the past, this is the present and all what there is, let's enjoy that then. And it's as amazing as it was before, and if you don't think like that then don't watch it!

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Mr Pink

And I'm going to beat the dead horse some more. Looking past the actual circuits, am I the only one who sees an advantage in it self in choosing circuits where F1 doesn't race? For most people F1 would still be the main event of the year by a lot and then there's "those Le Mans cars". But if they go to say, Brno or Mosport, WEC would be the main event. There are so many nice circuits around the world that could easily host great race weekends, why choose the ones where you have to compete against a commercially superior oponent?

Oh, and I do enjoy watching the whole WEC season. A lot!

I think going to circuits f1 doesn't could have actual benefits for the wec.