[WEC] Porsche GTP / Hypercar: factory and customer

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Mal

That is actually the opposite to the reality from my experience.

I'd agree with you. Ferrari and Porsche have backed up their sporting image through decades of racing. They are both true sportscars because of this. Lambo on the other hand, more of a poser car, with no real racing heritage behind the brand, except for a few less than successful ventures.

[Salamus]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

I'd agree with you. Ferrari and Porsche have backed up their sporting image through decades of racing. They are both true sportscars because of this. Lambo on the other hand, more of a poser car, with no real racing heritage behind the brand, except for a few less than successful ventures.

Lamborghini never really liked racing, he wanted his sports cars and GT cars to be purely for road use. Of course that has changed now due to the various owners of Lamborghini.

[Dario911]

Originally Posted by zanfo zanfagni

Nothing can make invisible a true myth. Ferrari cars shine brightly even inside a dark room. When lamborghini main activty was farm tractors and Ferdinand Porsche was projecting the first beetle, Ferrari was already a sportscar producer. History. You may like or not, but when you see a ferrari put your hat off, because you are not watching only a car, but one of the most important page of the automotive history and that deserves respect.

When Porsche started to design sportscars, Ferrari was trying to be a sportscars driver (less than mediocre...). Do you remember Mercedes, Auto Union and Cisitalia designed by Porsche?
Don't forget Ferrari has started its manufacturer activity in 1947, while Porsche in 1948 (before he was chief engineering at Mercedes, and founded an engineering company).
You may like or not, but when you see a Porsche put your hat off, because you are not watching only a car, but one of the most important page of the automotive history and that deserves respect.
Afterall, when you talj about Porsche, you must remember you're talking about the most winnig manufacturer in motorsport.
Stop of the O.T.

[zanfo zanfagni]

This feud hardly augurs well . My opinion remains the same, Ferrari is a cut above the rest, but this out topic wall vs. wall fight annoyed me enough. Please could someone kindly tell me if is possible to activate an ignore mode?

[Dario911]

Originally Posted by zanfo zanfagni

This feud hardly augurs well . My opinion remains the same, Ferrari is a cut above the rest, but this out topic wall vs. wall fight annoyed me enough. Please could someone kindly tell me if is possible to activate an ignore mode?

"Ignore mode"?
You've never seen the fight between Porsche and Ferrari lovers on this forum!
If you're annoyed for a so shallow motivation, I'm sorry for you. Here we've always discussed in this way about so exciting arguments!
I've never offended you in these posts, and you've never offended me.
That's the important thing.
I won't change your point of view, but I don't change mine! It's just a confrontation, afterall forum exist just for this!
Anyway, I don't understand why I should have to accept your arguments, while you don't accept replies from a different point of view.
If you really want ignore any different point of view, maybe you're in the wrong place.

[zanfo zanfagni]

where I come from, a confrontation is a discussion between 2 or more people about a subject with different points of view. Even if a common solution is not found, each of us comes out stronger than before because has enriched his own knowledge with new and different ideas that help to grow up and become more mature. But this is not a confrontation, is more a childish wrangling about who screams louder his dogma

I: ferrari is better than porsche
YOU: you're wrong, porsche is better than ferrari
I: you're wrong, ferrari is better than porsche
YOU: no you're wrong
I: no you're wrong

is just a Kafkaesque situation, nothing more. This is the reason why i prefer ignore you than keep on with this mindless game.

[Dario911]

Originally Posted by zanfo zanfagni

where I come from, a confrontation is a discussion between 2 or more people about a subject with different points of view. Even if a common solution is not found, each of us comes out stronger than before because has enriched his own knowledge with new and different ideas that help to grow up and become more mature. But this is not a confrontation, is more a childish wrangling about who screams louder his dogma

I: ferrari is better than porsche
YOU: you're wrong, porsche is better than ferrari
I: you're wrong, ferrari is better than porsche
YOU: no you're wrong
I: no you're wrong

is just a Kafkaesque situation, nothing more. This is the reason why i prefer ignore you than keep on with this mindless game.

Alright. I'm happier than you to ignore your posts. Trouble is not of mine.

P.S.
I'm not been the first to talk about the fox and the grapes, nor to accuse you to talk about things you don't know...

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by zanfo zanfagni

is just a Kafkaesque situation, nothing more. This is the reason why i prefer ignore you than keep on with this mindless game.

Which you willingly started. As I mentioned earlier there is a separate thread for EXACTLY this same discussion. Those who are thin skinned should watch from the sidelines. Participate in that thread and I will gladly share my opinions with you on the topic. And feel free to ignore me as well.

Richard

[Aysedasi]

Enough already. No more of this stupid toing and froing - discuss the topic or take a break.

[GT6]

sorry I think i was partially responsible for this, lets hope the new porsche LMP1 cause less arguments when we finally get to see it, and I for one can say I hope that we see it soon

[Dario911]

Emmanuel Collard has ceased his Corvette partnership, has closed his Pescarolo parenthesis, is no more a Porsche driver... I think he's a wonder driver, as in GT class as well in LMP1.
Now he's racing with Porsche in the VdeV championship, in France. It's a private team, anything official, proving to be a winner... but I would have been pleased to see him involved in P1 with Porsche. Ok, maybe it's not the fastest one, but he's as hard as a rock, is reliable, knows Le Mans very well, has good experience in P1 (Pescarolo) as well in P2 (Porsche), and has always proved to be a winner in every class he's raced.
He's won several GT championsips, but he's been very fast and winning in P1, too.
In Le Mans he has achieved very good results:

1996 - 2nd in P1 with Courage-Porsche
2003 - 1st in GT2 with Porsche
2005 - 2nd overall with Pescarolo
2007 - 3rd overall with Pescarolo (with Dumas)
2009 - 1st in P2 with Porsche

We have to consider he's never raced with top cars, and he's always done a great job, except when failures have stopped the car.
I think he would have deserved a real chance to win the most important race of his career, driving a Porsche (the manufacturer has given to him greatest satisfactions).
Ok, he's not so young, but is fast and has a lot of experience, and this is basic in a so hard race as Le Mans.

[rich07]

Would marketing appeal come into it as well-he is French btw.

[Spyderman]

Porsche has Dumas and Pilet to take care of the French market.

[Dario911]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Porsche has Dumas and Pilet to take care of the French market.

Dumas, Pilet, Collard. A french trio on the highest step of the podium would be a great marketing move by Porsche.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Porsche has Dumas and Pilet to take care of the French market.

One more couldnt hurt

Well theres no one taking care of the Australian market-come on down Mark Webber!

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Dario911

We have to consider he's never raced with top cars, and he's always done a great job, except when failures have stopped the car.

Ok, he's not so young, but is fast and has a lot of experience, and this is basic in a so hard race as Le Mans.

I think a couple of years spent driving for the works Toyota squad in '98/'99 constitutes racing with the top car.

That said I don't think he'll be anywhere close to Porsche's radar.

Dumas and Bernhard will have done the race 20 times between them heading into 2014. That's a good foundation.

I hope that Porsche will be in a position to announce something else during the Le Mans week.

[Spyderman]

We are now about 2 months away from the car's roll out. I have just remembered how fearful I am of seeing that ugly, ugly fin on my beloved LMP1 Porsche!

[962]

+1 for spyderman

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

We are now about 2 months away from the car's roll out. I have just remembered how fearful I am of seeing that ugly, ugly fin on my beloved LMP1 Porsche!

Yeah ...... forced to build a car with a fin a great white would be happy with !!!

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

We are now about 2 months away from the car's roll out. I have just remembered how fearful I am of seeing that ugly, ugly fin on my beloved LMP1 Porsche!

The problem these days is that to a casual observer all P1 cars look very much the same. And given the requirements (fins and otherwise), I am expecting it to not be that easy on the eyes, but I hope to be proven wrong. I would love it to be a beautiful car! I expect the default/initial livery to be not that crazy as they probably want us to focus on the car and not he livery. Wouldn't a throwback 917 "hippie car" style livery be awesome?!

Anyhow, I think it will be the examination of the small design details that will be interesting for us.

Richard

[Mal]

I dont think an R18 and TS030 look the same

[Salamus]

Originally Posted by Mal

I dont think an R18 and TS030 look the same

Are you a casual observer?

[Mal]

Originally Posted by Salamus

Are you a casual observer?

Well I am never formal so I must be.

My point is that I dont think those two cars look similar at all and they look far less similar than any two F1 or NASCAR's that attract millions of 'casual observers'.

[Salamus]

Originally Posted by Mal

Well I am never formal so I must be.

My point is that I dont think those two cars look similar at all and they look far less similar than any two F1 or NASCAR's that attract millions of 'casual observers'.

Casual observers usually just look at the overall shape of the car. To many, the R18 and TS030 are very similar because both consist of a big fin, small cockpit, etc. Same goes for the P2 cars (which are even more similar).

Anyway, I think the people at Porsche will work their magic and create a stunning car and livery.

Btw I wonder what numbers they will use. I'm thinking in the 15-19 range.

[Dario911]

When Porsche RS Spyder came out, it was enough different from any other LMP2 of the field, and the same was for Acura. I think there's a small margin to make shape original, but very much will depend from the livery of the car. Penske's one, was very nice. I suggest livery may be the same of the Salzburg 917 of the 1970, the car won Le Mans for the first time overall. Red and white is not so bad 'cause are the official colours of my town!
The most important thing is the car will be competitive! It maybe pistachio green, it doesn't matter!