IMSA USCC in 2016 and 2017

[Coach Ep]

whatever, point is that a GTE car is not as far away from a Nascar as Bullman claims. The production origin not being the dominant factor in the comparison here but more the policy, regs and rules set by the series.

Anyway, in more interesting news: http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/12042...aytona-program

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by BullMan

If I look at a GTE Corvette, it looks like a Corvette. The doors open. It has working lights. Sure, it's highly modified, but it still starts out as a Corvette. There is a difference between building a car to regulations and having every car designed the same way. Saying a GTE car is like a NASCAR tube-frame silouette racer is pure insanity and 100% false. How else would a front engine V10 Viper race against a mid-mounted V8 Ferrari and a rear-mounted flat-6 Porsche?

Please. It's nothing like NASCAR's cars.

It is contrived competition exactly like NASCAR, only worse, cars are power reduced so as to not embarrass the p cars.

The GT cars are dummied down to the lowest common denominator.
While I despise the fact the Trans-Am runs tube frame cars, at least under the hood they are not crippled by bop farce spec. rules.

[BullMan]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

It is contrived competition exactly like NASCAR, only worse, cars are power reduced so as to not embarrass the p cars.

The GT cars are dummied down to the lowest common denominator.
While I despise the fact the Trans-Am runs tube frame cars, at least under the hood they are not crippled by bop farce spec. rules.

The cars aren't power reduced for that reason. They're like that so they slot in behind LMP1 and LMP2, as they should.

TA2 cars are all the same! Just choose your body and put it on the spec chassis.

http://www.howeracing.com/Adobe/HoweTA20811.pdf

Trans Am is a lightly regarded regional series that supports other support series. You can't compare that to GT racing.

GTE ran 5.5 seconds quicker at Sebring than the TA1 cars. Still, no comparison.

[CyberMotor]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

He is comparing the chassis between a monocoque vs tube frame in the ease in which it is repaired. It in FACT starts life on the same assy line as the production C7. After that they do some work to it but it still retains its production base.

In this one he explains the 'work' that is done to the STOCK chassis in order to add the cage etc...

L.P.

Hey Horndawg, any idea when Corvette will be introducing Hybrid technology that adopts to the world standards and can compete at this high level?

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by CyberMotor

Hey Horndawg, any idea when Corvette will be introducing Hybrid technology that adopts to the world standards and can compete at this high level?

Likely when it's finanicially feasable. Don't plan on it anytime soon.

[TF110]

Not trying to go way off topic, but Vette is a dilemma in GM. Do they make the Vette the Supercar/hypercar(?) in the future or does that go to Cadillac? That might dilute the Vette image. But moving it upmarket would take away that value and affordability image. Either way its a tough future for them and the Corvette name. I wonder how this plays out in its racing future?

[carbsmith]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

The only part on that vette that's production is the frame rails, the floorpan and the roof.

So 100% of the structural components of the street car then.

The Ford has a carbon tub and inboard suspension, does that mean GTEs are F1 cars?

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by TF110

Not trying to go way off topic, but Vette is a dilemma in GM. Do they make the Vette the Supercar/hypercar(?) in the future or does that go to Cadillac? That might dilute the Vette image. But moving it upmarket would take away that value and affordability image. Either way its a tough future for them and the Corvette name. I wonder how this plays out in its racing future?

I think it would be interesting to see them expand the ZR1 thought process to a true supercar style. CF tub, big HP... might be the way to go. Limited edition, and it'd carry a huge price tag.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

So 100% of the structural components of the street car then.

The Ford has a carbon tub and inboard suspension, does that mean GTEs are F1 cars?

I'm not certain why the attitude?

I simply posted it for those who didn't know.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by CyberMotor

Hey Horndawg, any idea when Corvette will be introducing Hybrid technology that adopts to the world standards and can compete at this high level?

Why? There is no need to.







L.P.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

I'm not certain why the attitude?

I simply posted it for those who didn't know.

Pegged the meter on that one.








L.P.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by TF110

Not trying to go way off topic, but Vette is a dilemma in GM. Do they make the Vette the Supercar/hypercar(?) in the future or does that go to Cadillac? That might dilute the Vette image. But moving it upmarket would take away that value and affordability image. Either way its a tough future for them and the Corvette name. I wonder how this plays out in its racing future?

Corvette has been in mass production for 60+ years, they will not make it into a model that is unattainable to the masses.







L.P.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by BullMan

The cars aren't power reduced for that reason. They're like that so they slot in behind LMP1 and LMP2, as they should.

No you are incorrect, some have the horsepower cut because they would run away from the other gt cars and then the other would have to spend money to keep up.

It you think it is OK for the gt cars to be kept artificially slower than the p cars then you are easily satisfied but as that is the way the France family wants it that is the way it is.

Trans-Am cars do not have the artificial aero add-ons the gt cars have which is the only reason they are quicker.
Take the aero gimmicks off and you would have something that truly resembles a production car.

Trans-Am has tube frames, no kidding.
I do believe I said that.
The SCCA could easily turn, and as they are the SCCA all bets are off, TA1 into just another spec. bs series but so far so good.
The fact there is a TA2 worries me along with the fact they are trying to weed out engine now very popular.

If the IMSA wants to be even a strong shadow of what it once was, to bring back GT1 with rules at least as liberal as they were in the early 2000s, would be a first step.
As it is now, if I were a betting man, I would put my money on the series being in serious trouble by 2019, if it gets that far.
The -- just wait till 2xxx-- has been going on for ten years and the story is not getting better.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Corvette has been in mass production for 60+ years, they will not make it into a model that is unattainable to the masses.







L.P.

The new Z06 has a price tag around $100k, thats not obtainable to the masses. I know they could have a 'base' Vette like the Z51, but the future will pass them by in the higher price market. Look at the new NSX and even higher up, the Ford GT.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by TF110

The new Z06 has a price tag around $100k, thats not obtainable to the masses. I know they could have a 'base' Vette like the Z51, but the future will pass them by in the higher price market. Look at the new NSX and even higher up, the Ford GT.

I will reiterate it, Corvette is a high performance Sports Car, not a hyper car which is exactly why it races as a GTLM in TUSC. Along the lines of why they race in TUSC and not the WEC which puzzles and vexes so many amongst the forum.





L.P.






L.P.

[MitchZ06]

+1^

[BullMan]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

No you are incorrect, some have the horsepower cut because they would run away from the other gt cars and then the other would have to spend money to keep up.

It you think it is OK for the gt cars to be kept artificially slower than the p cars then you are easily satisfied but as that is the way the France family wants it that is the way it is.

Trans-Am cars do not have the artificial aero add-ons the gt cars have which is the only reason they are quicker.
Take the aero gimmicks off and you would have something that truly resembles a production car.

Trans-Am has tube frames, no kidding.
I do believe I said that.
The SCCA could easily turn, and as they are the SCCA all bets are off, TA1 into just another spec. bs series but so far so good.
The fact there is a TA2 worries me along with the fact they are trying to weed out engine now very popular.

If the IMSA wants to be even a strong shadow of what it once was, to bring back GT1 with rules at least as liberal as they were in the early 2000s, would be a first step.
As it is now, if I were a betting man, I would put my money on the series being in serious trouble by 2019, if it gets that far.
The -- just wait till 2xxx-- has been going on for ten years and the story is not getting better.

Uh, you know that ACO sets the technical regulations for GTE and does the BoP, right? Same thing for GT3. IMSA takes their BoP as a baseline. ACO is the one that says how fast a GTE car will go.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by BullMan

Uh, you know that ACO sets the technical regulations for GTE and does the BoP, right? Same thing for GT3. IMSA takes their BoP as a baseline. ACO is the one that says how fast a GTE car will go.

The IMSA can set any regs it so chooses if it so chooses.

The fact Panoz and ALMS kissed the ACOs buttocks, rather than run his own series designed for the U.S. rather than France, is one reason it went belly-up.

[Deleted]

Yet the early years of 1999-200X, you know the times Panoz and IMSA were the bestest friends of ACO before splitting of hairs started to happen, are often considered the best.

Without ACO connection and ACO legal class structure you would have had glorified version of Grand-Am.

[BullMan]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

The IMSA can set any regs it so chooses if it so chooses.

The fact Panoz and ALMS kissed the ACOs buttocks, rather than run his own series designed for the U.S. rather than France, is one reason it went belly-up.

LOL, you're describing Grand Am! The series NASCAR owned and nobody watched or cared about! You're bagging on ALMS, the one that actually got people to watch and attend races.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Yet the early years of 1999-200X, you know the times Panoz and IMSA were the bestest friends of ACO before splitting of hairs started to happen, are often considered the best.

Without ACO connection and ACO legal class structure you would have had glorified version of Grand-Am.

NO, there is no decree that make creation of the DP cars madatory.
The SCCA and IMSA class structures worked fine for years without the ACO.

[MitchZ06]

Sounds like we got ourselves a good ol' boy here!

[Deleted]

I did not mean it literally. If Don Panoz had kept just playing golf for retirement days and the old IMSA GT had continued to circulate old WSC variations and whatnot of their own without really caring of anything outside their little circle, we would we have missed the resurrection old North Americas golden age of racing. Factory teams forming and coming out to play, Sebring for period becoming worlds second biggest sportscar race again while making mockery of Daytona, the quick growth of PLM to classic territory, relevant cars and relevant racing. But perhaps more crucially, Le Mans today could be a bleak arena without ALMS. Just as we can thank Ratel for saving LM from falling to its face after 1992, we can thanks Panoz for revitalizing world sportscars for Millenia. This came in good spot since the factory teams at LM were starting to back out at that state again, and as for other teams there were really not that many places to run their machinery. Furthermore, had the IMSA series stayed as some internationally obscure national outfit, I and many others here would never had probably taken any notice of it. With the new fusion series going backwards now in this international relevance, the effect will be reverse.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by BullMan

LOL, you're describing Grand Am! The series NASCAR owned and nobody watched or cared about! You're bagging on ALMS, the one that actually got people to watch and attend races.

Maybe in your mind reality says ALMS went belly-up and the France family took over what was left.

Dumb and dumber giving us more of same crap from a different pile.

[BullMan]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Maybe in your mind reality says ALMS went belly-up and the France family took over what was left.

Dumb and dumber giving us more of same crap from a different pile.

The fact that ALMS was mismanaged by idiots like Scott Atherton has nothing to do with the fact that it brought eyeballs to the series since people wanted to see the same cars that ran at Le Mans.

You say that they should have gone it alone but that is EXACTLY what NASCAR did, and it failed to attract any attention. Teaming up with the ACO was a great decision and it worked for more than a decade.