Group A Rover 3500 SD1/Vitesse - History & Whereabouts

[KA]

Interesting piece in Autosport this week- their BTCC season preview includes a look back at the 1987 BTCC, with some comments from Andy Rouse and Tim Harvey. Andy talks about the difference between the Rover and RS500, and reckons the Rover handled better than the Sierra, because the Rover's wheelarch clearances enabled them to run it lower, whereas the need for larger rear tyre sizes to put the Sierra's power down meant that they had to run the car with a ground clearance more akin to the road car...

A couple of shots of the Harvey Rover, and an RS500 certainly seem to illustrate the point- I think we've commented in the Sierra thread about the slightly 'tail-up' attitude that the RS500s often seemed to have...
http://shop.simonlewis.com/ekmps/sho...1987-337-p.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/richard...er/6150972502/

http://uktv.co.uk/images/620349/26932_.jpg
http://www.swapmeetmodels.co.uk/imag...erra-ics-2.jpg

A bit off-topic, but there's also a brief piece about Mike O'Brien and the ex-Grice 1987 BTCC Holden Commodore in the same issue

[Nordic]

http://speedhunters.com/archive/2012...the-scene.aspx

Scroll down and there is a 'Bastos' Rover. The event was the Leadfoot hillclimb in New Zealand

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Nordic

http://speedhunters.com/archive/2012...the-scene.aspx

Scroll down and there is a 'Bastos' Rover. The event was the Leadfoot hillclimb in New Zealand

Crikey if I had come across these sceneic pics without the NZ link, I would've sworn they had been taken at the West Midlands Safari Park!

The windy, narrow roads and trees at the side look just like it!

[KA]

Good find- if it's a Bastos Rover in NZ, then I suspect it's Allan Dippie's 1986-season car. IIRC wasn't Allan also restoring one of the French Marlboro cars? Anyone know if it's finished? I don't think I've seen pics of it out and about at any events yet?

[KA]

Originally Posted by KA

Interesting piece in Autosport this week- their BTCC season preview includes a look back at the 1987 BTCC, with some comments from Andy Rouse and Tim Harvey.

Hadn't got the Autosport issue to hand when I posted this, but here are a couple of quotes;

Originally Posted by Tim Harvey

The Cosworths all had the ability of turning the boost up in qualifying, so if you were the top normally-aspirated runner, you were doing well. The Rover was heavier and more sluggish in changing direction, but as a package it was good. It looked after it's tyres better, but the tide was turning

The article suggests the tide really turned with the events of one five-week period following Harvey's last win at Brands (the last of 39 BTCC race wins scored by the Rover) after Rouse and Sytner's M3 clashed- First, Frank Sytner's first outright win in the M3 at Donington, beating all the 'big' class cars in Rouse's absence, then Mike Newman's win in the Oulton 1-hour race, Cosworth unreliability and an inspired tyre choice helping to score the 635's final BTCC win, and finally the 'knockout blow'- the arrival of the RS500...although the Class A title would eventually go down to the wire between the Harvey and Dennis Leech Rovers, Tim pipping Dennis by a single point after a three-way scrap at the last round, also involving Dave Carvell's Vitesse- the overall title never really an option because of Chris Hodgetts' dominance in the 1600 class

Originally Posted by Andy Rouse

The Ford was a different animal to the Rover...The Cosworth had more power, so it was quicker in a straight line, but the Rover handled better. The wheelarches on the Rover allowed us to run it low, but because we had to run as big a rear tyre as possible on the Ford to deal with the power, it had to run road-car type rideheight

Originally Posted by Tim Harvey

It was very clear that the Cosworth was the future...It was the last year of the Rover being competitive- and the BMW 635- but they were both iconic Group A cars, and 1987 was the start of a long career for me'

I can't believe it was all 25 years ago now..! Where did all that time go....?

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by KA

Good find- if it's a Bastos Rover in NZ, then I suspect it's Allan Dippie's 1986-season car. IIRC wasn't Allan also restoring one of the French Marlboro cars? Anyone know if it's finished? I don't think I've seen pics of it out and about at any events yet?

According to a member of the FB 'Group A Group' 005 is not quite finished yet but not far off.

[KA]

Way back in the thread, about 18 months ago, we discussed the 1986 white TWR 'South Pacific Racing' cars driven by Denny Hulme, Ron Dickson Neville Crichton and others, and what the nature of the deal was- Been sorting out some old mags in the loft, and found Autosport for 17th April 1986, which contains a report of the Hulme/Dickson/Crichton Rover deal, under the headline 'Hulme in Group A Rover'

The details as reported are quite interesting, as this was clearly intended to be a bigger-scale deal than finally materialised:

Originally Posted by Autosport. 17/4/86

'Denis Clive Hulme, we are delighted to say, is to make a serious return to motor racing! He will drive a TWR-prepared Rover Vitesse in several rounds of the FIA Touring Car Championship, starting with the race at Misano on May 04
The 1967 World Champion, now 49, will share the car with Australian Ron Dickson and millionaire Neville Crichton, and the same team will also drive a TWR Jaguar XJS in the James Hardie 1000, a major touring car race at Mount Fuji and the similar event at Macau.
The TCC campaign has been masterminded by the West Nally Group, organisers of the Nissan Mobil 500 Series, and promoters of the World Touring Car Championship in 1987.
West Nally have agreed a three year deal with TWR, and say they will run the team with, or without, sponsors.
Denny says he's excited about the plans, and wants particularly to win the Tourist Trophy, which he previously won in 1965-66-68. 'The only reason I haven't pursued a saloon car racing career outside Australia is that I didn't think anyone would offer me a drive' he said 'and I wasn't going to spend my own money'
Initially, Hulme, Crichton and Dickson will be joined by Jeff Allam, a regular member of the TWR team. Sponsorship is rumoured to be coming from Coca-Cola'

So a three year deal, covering Rovers in the ETC, plus an XJS for Bathurst, Fuji and Macau, with possible Coca-Cola backing, and a 3-year deal, which suggests this may have been intended as a long-term WTCC entry?

The mention of Jeff Allam, making 4 drivers in all suggests this was always intended as a 2-car effort, which is what we saw at several of the ETC races.

Of course, with Rover pulling out at the end of '86 with the replacement of the SD1 by the fwd 800, and Jaguar focussing on Group C and Le Mans (plus the XJS being out of homologation after '86), would the Hulme/Dickson/Crichton group have had to look to a different manufacturer for '87, possibly as part of the intended TWR Holden WTCC entry?

Presumably West Nally losing the WTCC promotion deal (and the non-appearance of Coke or anyone else as a sponsor) could have been a significant factor as well in this not panning out as announced?

[brown dog]

Interesting, as for 1987 Neville Crichton bought an Eggenberger XR4Ti and ran this in NZ and Australia, sometimes with Denny driving, and sometimes himself. The car was not competitive with reliability problems.I seem to remember reading that the plan was to run it for a year, then get a Cosworth, but that did not happen for whatever reason.

And yes that was Allan Dippie at leadfoot in the Bastos Rover, I spoke to him there and the Marlboro car (does autocensor work on cigarette brands? ) is not finished yet.

[Gavin RS]

Morning all.

Just a technical question, would anyone know what the rear spring ratings (poundage) were on the TWR Grp A cars. (they probably had various ratings for different tracks) I just need to know as I want to try get my car to similar spec as I am having trouble with the springs at the moment.

Thanks

Gavin

[ken clarke]

The spring rates varied for different circuits & years, dependent on wheel size & tyres used. The softest we used was 320lbs & the hardest 400lbs. Remember, we ran coilovers so if you are not this information is irrelevant.

[Gavin RS]

Originally Posted by ken clarke

The spring rates varied for different circuits & years, dependent on wheel size & tyres used. The softest we used was 320lbs & the hardest 400lbs. Remember, we ran coilovers so if you are not this information is irrelevant.

Thanks Ken, appreciate the info. I have to make sure our regulations in South Africa will allow me to run coil overs at the rear if I convert the car to historic touring car spec. at the moment it will be running in a road class so I cannot run coilovers at the rear.

Cheers

Gavin

[darren2012]

Originally Posted by KA

Way back in the thread, about 18 months ago, we discussed the 1986 white TWR 'South Pacific Racing' cars driven by Denny Hulme, Ron Dickson Neville Crichton and others, and what the nature of the deal was- Been sorting out some old mags in the loft, and found Autosport for 17th April 1986, which contains a report of the Hulme/Dickson/Crichton Rover deal, under the headline 'Hulme in Group A Rover'

The details as reported are quite interesting, as this was clearly intended to be a bigger-scale deal than finally materialised:



So a three year deal, covering Rovers in the ETC, plus an XJS for Bathurst, Fuji and Macau, with possible Coca-Cola backing, and a 3-year deal, which suggests this may have been intended as a long-term WTCC entry?

The mention of Jeff Allam, making 4 drivers in all suggests this was always intended as a 2-car effort, which is what we saw at several of the ETC races.

Of course, with Rover pulling out at the end of '86 with the replacement of the SD1 by the fwd 800, and Jaguar focussing on Group C and Le Mans (plus the XJS being out of homologation after '86), would the Hulme/Dickson/Crichton group have had to look to a different manufacturer for '87, possibly as part of the intended TWR Holden WTCC entry?

Presumably West Nally losing the WTCC promotion deal (and the non-appearance of Coke or anyone else as a sponsor) could have been a significant factor as well in this not panning out as announced?

West Nally had a very close working relationship with Coca Cola at that time West Nally's major involvement with Coca Cola was through Football hence the FIFA/UEFA sponsorship deal with Coca Cola which was signed in 1975 (Coca Cola have sponsored every World Cup and major international tournament since 1977) and still continues to this day

[KA]

Found several pics of the 1986 Macau 'Watsons' cars on a Chinese-language website

http://www.motofan.com.hk/motofan/im...p/set_15/5.jpg
http://www.motofan.com.hk/motofan/im...p/set_10/6.jpg
http://www.motofan.com.hk/motofan/im...p/set_10/2.jpg
http://www.motofan.com.hk/motofan/im...p/set_14/1.jpg
http://www.motofan.com.hk/motofan/im...p/set_19/5.jpg
http://www.motofan.com.hk/motofan/im...p/set_10/0.jpg

More 1986 Macau here

http://www.motofan.com.hk/motofan/in...5&limitstart=2

[mgmetro6r4]

Has any one got any information on Golden Wonder car .Or engine bay photos. Who had the car and has it changed as it had three oil coolers on it why. Would be interested in the name or names of people who built the car it was the first motorsport car Rover SD 1 out of Cowley

[Gavin RS]

Hi all

Would anyone have any photo's of the Group A cars suspension front and rear as well as interior?
I am trying to see if I can get my car as close as possible to the real race cars. My car is going for it's Historic passport next Friday and hopefully its first race next Saturday in the next Historic round here in South Africa.

Cheers

Gavin

[MGDavid]

This was at Spa Summer Classic 2009 - hopefully someone will recognise the car and be able to say whether it's relevant to your question!

[chunterer]

I suspect it's the car currently owned by the Williams's. It's an ex Dennis Leech car that latterly had a lot of TWR parts added. It's being looked after by Ken Clarke.

[Hugh]

I have an EX Works Rover V8 engine and Getrag 625 gearbox that I no longer need plus some other parts.

Ex Works Rover V8 4 Bolt main thick wall block




Ex works Getrag 625 5 speed Gearbox unused since rebuild by R&D motorsport




More picture here of these and other parts I have here :-

http://www.sol.co.uk/h/hugh/Sale/TR7...0V8%20-%206R4/

Cheers

Hugh

[juha1320]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I have an EX Works Rover V8 engine and Getrag 625 gearbox that I no longer need plus some other parts.

Ex Works Rover V8 4 Bolt main thick wall block




Ex works Getrag 625 5 speed Gearbox unused since rebuild by R&D motorsport




More picture here of these and other parts I have here :-

http://www.sol.co.uk/h/hugh/Sale/TR7...0V8%20-%206R4/

Cheers

Hugh

Hello,
I am interested in your SD1 racing parts.
Juha Liukkonen
juhak.liukkonen@gmail.com

[ken clarke]

I am currently having manufactured the cast aluminium front suspension uprights for the Group A SD1. These will be the 1986 spec 6 bolt bearing items. I am also manufacturing the track control arms & tension struts & all other bespoke TWR suspension parts.

I am also having Group A rear axle casings made. These will be the latest 1986 spec casings with the top 'Anti roll bar' mounts on. These can of course be used on all cars.

If any body is interested in any of these items send me a pm.

Ken.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by ken clarke

I am currently having manufactured the cast aluminium front suspension uprights for the Group A SD1. These will be the 1986 spec 6 bolt bearing items. I am also manufacturing the track control arms & tension struts & all other bespoke TWR suspension parts.

I am also having Group A rear axle casings made. These will be the latest 1986 spec casings with the top 'Anti roll bar' mounts on. These can of course be used on all cars.

If any body is interested in any of these items send me a pm.

Ken.

Ken, thanks for letting us all know about this excellent news. I am sure that the components will be extremely sought after by those who currently own, or even are thinking of restoring and racing Group A Vitesses soon.

I hope you will be able to keep Tenthers informed of progress with TWR 002 as you go too.

[chunterer]

On a separate note I disovered the other day that the SD1 in SA that we were trying to determine the history of a few pages back was actually built by DPR from a BL shell especially for the guy who bought it and is not an ex G2/G1 car as we originally thought.

[ken clarke]

Originally Posted by chunterer

I suspect it's the car currently owned by the Williams's. It's an ex Dennis Leech car that latterly had a lot of TWR parts added. It's being looked after by Ken Clarke.

This is the Williams ex Dennis Leech car. It was built in period with parts from the remains of TWR 017.

[KA]

Can't remember whether these have been mentioned in the thread before- a chance find on eBid, pics from the 1985 TT and Donington ETCC meetings, featuring the TWR/Bastos and Pete Hall/ICS Rovers, plus TWR Marlboro & Computervision cars on display in the paddock (and Neil McGrath's Linden/Connells car lurking in the background of a couple of Donington shots)

http://uk.ebid.net/perl/main.cgi?typ...es-Motor-Sport
http://uk.ebid.net/perl/main.cgi?typ...Sport&start=75

[chunterer]

The Patrick Motorsport/Martin Thomas G1 3500 showcar is listed for auction at Bonham's. Can't find the link again, but it has been mentioned on FB.

The car was raced once, the season final of 1981 in Rad Dougall's hands at Silverstone where it got pole and finished 3rd? For the majority of i's life it sat in the PMG museum in Birmingham and I last saw it on the 50 years of BTCC stand at the NEC about 4 years ago.

So it does have some race pedigree.....

Guide price is between £3-5k but the thinking is that it really ought to go for 3 times that, and then there's the rebuild costs.

Whatever the case, some wealthy or enthusiastic fan of BTCC ought to get in there and bid as it is a very rare opportunity. Maybe it could then be entered in an appropriate series?