The never ending Toyota return to Le Mans (LMP1) Saga

[TF110]

Not to mention the cars they offered weren't selling so they stopped the sports cars and did the SUV craze everyone was on. Now they're appliances because they followed a trend? There's no reason to be talking about their road cars, this thread is about their hybrid lmp.

Anyway, this powertrain is developed with possible road car applications in mind. That was talked about in an interview. I didn't hear as much wheelspin with Lapierre's on-board. When are they running in the rain?

[merlot brougham]

Originally Posted by AGD

Well, with one exception, aren't those all discontinued models?

DING DING DING! We have a winner!

They make LAME cars (at least in the US). As far as the parallel between what companies ACTUALLY make and what they RACE....well I drive an M3. Not bragging, just saying. I want a performance car, not an appliance.

[evanPGH]

Originally Posted by TF110

Not to mention the cars they offered weren't selling so they stopped the sports cars and did the SUV craze everyone was on. Now they're appliances because they followed a trend? There's no reason to be talking about their road cars, this thread is about their hybrid lmp.

Anyway, this powertrain is developed with possible road car applications in mind. That was talked about in an interview. I didn't hear as much wheelspin with Lapierre's on-board. When are they running in the rain?

My understanding was that it was raining early this morning but stopped shortly after they started testing. I don't think there are any vids out there of it running in the rain or even on a track of standing water.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by merlot brougham

DING DING DING! We have a winner!

They make LAME cars (at least in the US). As far as the parallel between what companies ACTUALLY make and what they RACE....well I drive an M3. Not bragging, just saying. I want a performance car, not an appliance.

You drive an M3, but say you want a performance vehicle from... Toyota? You're derailing the thread. You should know the Lexus IS-F is a 4 door almost equivalent to the M3, but I guess you forgot about that?

Too bad there aren't any wet track runs, would like to see it's acceleration in those conditions.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by TF110

There's no reason to be talking about their road cars, this thread is about their hybrid lmp.

In the long-term, that disconnect might be a problem! But, yeah, I guess the one common link between Toyota street cars and Toyota race cars are the butter faces. Butter face, butter rear. I guess I can't blame Toyota for the rear though.

[evanPGH]

Originally Posted by TF110

You drive an M3, but say you want a performance vehicle from... Toyota? You're derailing the thread. You should know the Lexus IS-F is a 4 door almost equivalent to the M3, but I guess you forgot about that?

Too bad there aren't any wet track runs, would like to see it's acceleration in those conditions.

lol I was actually gonna mention the IS-F, and I guess the LF-A was too pricey for him.

Just saw Toyota tweeted that testing was done on a wet track today, not raining, but still wet. I'm assuming they'll have some footage up tomorrow if the trend from the rest of the week follows.

[kdr]

To be fair to Toyota they did build the GT-One...still the most vicious thing i've ever seen in the flesh.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by AGD

In the long-term, that disconnect might be a problem! But, yeah, I guess the one common link between Toyota street cars and Toyota race cars are the butter faces. Butter face, butter rear. I guess I can't blame Toyota for the rear though.

Butter face and rear? lol, just save your opinions of their looks for a different forum. I guess you didn't read the interviews either? The hybrid powertrain is developed with future road car applications in mind. Same with the GT300 prius in SuperGT.

As for their competition, what sports cars does Ford and GM have? A Mustang? Some fwd Focus? A Vette and a just brought back Camaro? How about Audi? A 55k TT? A 125K R8? But Toyota makes appliances with butter faces. They're only going with the times. You gotta adapt to be successful. We should be glad they're coming back to LeMans, and using an engine that actually sounds like it's doing something.

Toyota isn't Ferrari or Porsche, they aren't a brand of sports cars, why expect them to be? I'm just glad they're going to be investing in future technology in the road cars with sport in mind, this LMP and the GT300 prius are just a start.

[merlot brougham]

TF110 you're so funny. All kinds of folks proclaim why they WILL root for the Toyota and you are quiet. I make a single criticism of the mundane lineup they have and you get all worked up.

Read ANY car magazine. Better yet go drive them. Although Toyota aimed for the M3 but failed pitifully. It doesn't even offer a manual transmission! So LAME.

Look man, I am SUPER HAPPY they are in LMP. I said that before. But I will never be a fan of the team BECAUSE of their road car. Period. End of story.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by TF110

Butter face and rear? lol, just save your opinions of their looks for a different forum. I guess you didn't read the interviews either? The hybrid powertrain is developed with future road car applications in mind. Same with the GT300 prius in SuperGT.

Hey, I read them. I also read what Doug Fehan has to say. Well, at least I did. Now I just reach for the mute button. You get the idea.

There's just a bit of a disconnect between a high performance hybrid from Toyota when their road-going hybrids are the definition of dull. I can't convince a car guy friend that a Camry Hybrid or Prius is worth taking a look at just because there is a cool race car. I mean, c'mon, a Mazda 3 or something like that is a Porsche compared to those. If Toyota is changing that attitude, then hey, great. For now, well, not so much.

As for keeping with the times, I don't know about that. Look what happens when you design your cars around the AARP - unintended acceleration fiascos that probably don't really exist but taint the company's reputation.

As for butter face, I realize it's not important to how the car runs, but there is the whole package to consider when people are deciding to watch a race or not or if they want to cheer for a car or not.

[TF110]

I don't care if you don't like their cars or not. But don't come to this thread saying they're soulless and appliances as it's off topic and played out. This isn't Ferrari or Porsche, like I said. What do you expect from them if people use them to get from here to there? If they want a nice safe quiet car the Camry is for them. Not everyone needs a poser mobile or has to make a statement with what they drive.

I'm glad people look forward to them in LeMans as well. I don't see how I was 'upset' or whatever. It's the internet, guy. I don't get worked up over guys derailing the thread. I just try to put some knowledge out there. If you paid attention to what the interviews said, you'd get the key word FUTURE out of it. Everything takes time. No one expects a hybrid camry or prius to be sporty, that's ok, the fact they're racing this lmp is to change the perception of their hybrids for the future.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by TF110

I guess you didn't read the interviews either? The hybrid powertrain is developed with future road car applications in mind. Same with the GT300 prius in SuperGT.

You have to be realistic.

The only components of the TS030 hybrid system that are relevant for road cars, are the electric motors. The other components (supercapacitors and electronics) are designed for a completely different application: extremely fast charging and discharging cycles, traction control, .... are not important for a road car.

[Livininthinair]

be nice... Please, everyone, keep in mind the company we are talking about is the largest automotive manufacturer in the world, they are also no stranger to motorsports past and present. Toyota would not put forth the amount of money/time/resources this car is taking them without being very serious about their intentions and goals (goal being to be first to win LeMans with a hybrid car). Not too long ago we all (myself included) were very worried about the future of endurance racing (my favorite sport, period) we now have this new development to be interested in and proud of. We all wanted more attention focused on endurance racing rather than F1 or Nascar ect. I for one could not be happier to see this new car looking so solid and making a very good impression. I'm also very happy so far with driver choices and cannot wait to see how far this all goes. I am an Audi fan, I drive an Audi and work for VW/Audi but am overjoyed to see Toyota join the party - and what a party it figures to be... Welcome aboard TMG - good luck and happy hunting...

Just reread everything - guess I should have taken a breath somewhere in there - rant - rant...

God I hope its Friday, its been a long week - have a good weekend everybody...

[kaivo]

Originally Posted by merlot brougham

TF110 you're so funny. All kinds of folks proclaim why they WILL root for the Toyota and you are quiet. I make a single criticism of the mundane lineup they have and you get all worked up.

Read ANY car magazine. Better yet go drive them. Although Toyota aimed for the M3 but failed pitifully. It doesn't even offer a manual transmission! So LAME.

Look man, I am SUPER HAPPY they are in LMP. I said that before. But I will never be a fan of the team BECAUSE of their road car. Period. End of story.

So C63, RS4 are failed cars too ?

[TF110]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

You have to be realistic.

The only components of the TS030 hybrid system that are relevant for road cars, are the electric motors. The other components (supercapacitors and electronics) are designed for a completely different application: extremely fast charging and discharging cycles, traction control, .... are not important for a road car.

Most road cars do have traction control. The hybrid powertrain for the GT300 prius is basically the same as the road car's (at least the hybrid part). Regardless of whether they use the exact parts for their road cars, the fact that they are entering with this and boasting HYBRID on it speaks a lot that they trust in their system. I'm all for them getting hybrid in sports cars. And according the rumors and Japanese blogs, there's one coming soon.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by TF110

Most road cars do have traction control.

Most road cars have also four wheels...

[TF110]

^What's the point in silly posts like this? I'm just trying to point out a few things that Toyota/Lexus has planned that include hybrid vehicles with technology gained from programs like this.

[kdr]

I'm sure this has been posted before, but...i'm converted..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRECq...eature=related

Its so insane it just makes you laugh!

[deggis]

Originally Posted by TF110

^What's the point in silly posts like this? I'm just trying to point out a few things that Toyota/Lexus has planned that include hybrid vehicles with technology gained from programs like this.

What was you point about the traction control then? TC is a good example. Just because race and road cars has it doesn't mean there is any tech transfer, because it's used almost completely differently.

[wewantourdarbyback]

Love how the bloke with the camera wobbled when the engine kicked in

[TF110]

Originally Posted by deggis

What was you point about the traction control then? TC is a good example. Just because race and road cars has it doesn't mean there is any tech transfer, because it's used almost completely differently.

TC in their future hybrid cars if they're RWD or AWD should relate closely to these race cars. Don't know why you think differently. Not only that, but the regenerative braking, the storage means; all that can be translated to future road cars. It just so happens that the GT300 Prius uses the same hybrid powertrain as the road car. You're acting like I'm clueless as to what I'm trying to get at. Like I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm just trying to make a relation to the road cars and this project. Which is not even my words, but the words of the guys running the car!

[Adam43]

Despite claims to the contrary, there is a good impression of getting worked up about something in this thread. We're all fans of various different thing here, but come together to discuss on 10-10ths. It is better than a forum where people all think the same.

Is it off topic? A full discussion of how exciting or dull Toyota road cars are should probably be in the road car sub forum. Fill your boots. Discussion of whether their LMP is relevant does have some context here. Although feel free to start a specific thread here on it, if you feel it is taking over this thread.

Road car sub-forum: http://tentenths.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=38

[evanPGH]

Originally Posted by kdr

I'm sure this has been posted before, but...i'm converted..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRECq...eature=related

Its so insane it just makes you laugh!

I know exactly what you mean haha. Like a five year old giggling when they see something cool.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by TF110

TC in their future hybrid cars if they're RWD or AWD should relate closely to these race cars. Don't know why you think differently. Not only that, but the regenerative braking, the storage means; all that can be translated to future road cars.

Should, but it doesn't if the application is made different type of use which racing largely is. What comes to future findings, I'd expect the tech transfer to go more like the other way... findings from road cars/road car R&D to be translated to TS0x0.

You're acting like I'm clueless as to what I'm trying to get at. Like I don't know what I'm talking about.

You seemed to ignore what gwyllion said previously. Sorry.

[TF110]

I dion't think he's the know-all with race to road tech. So I'm going by what the team says, and by what Toyota says, and what some Japanes drivers said- we could see these relate very closely to road cars of theirs. All this back and forth about it is useless, I was making a statement based on what facts, no need to argue over it

I'm glad they're racing regardless, any factory team is a big welcome so we can see a decent close race and not an Audi domination.