General Sportscar Chat thread

[CTD]

Originally Posted by vincegail

I've just paid 54 euros for entrance tickets to Le Mans, and 82 euros per campsite ticket. I find these prices very reasonable. 100 euros for an entrance ticket and +/- 120-130 for campsite will be my 'screw you guys I'm staying home' point I guess.
I feared the involvement with the FIA would cause trouble, and I hate to be right in this case....

Your maximum price, is the same price as the Tickets for Roskilde Festival here in Denmark!
A big Single Concert in Denmark goes for around 100Euro's.

That is what I compare my Le Mans trip with, and personally, I think Le Mans currently is a steal! - having complete prices around the 250 Euros would be ok, as it's still more value for money compared to a concert, but I wouldn't be happy.


But, has only been going once, so haven't experienced any rise in prices. This might be a reason for my thoughts

[vincegail]

Prices have been pretty consistent, only slight raises, even below the inflation rate, so I am not complaining in that area.

But if Le Mans were to incorporate F1 style prices, it will go down the drain pretty immediately. Will be China F1-like attendance rates, I fear.

And I like your popfestival analogy. Those prices have increased beyond believe too lately! Hope we're not going that way!

[isynge]

Originally Posted by CTD

Your maximum price, is the same price as the Tickets for Roskilde Festival here in Denmark!
A big Single Concert in Denmark goes for around 100Euro's.

That is what I compare my Le Mans trip with, and personally, I think Le Mans currently is a steal! - having complete prices around the 250 Euros would be ok, as it's still more value for money compared to a concert, but I wouldn't be happy.


But, has only been going once, so haven't experienced any rise in prices. This might be a reason for my thoughts

Think I'm with CTD on this in regarding Le Mans as still highly good value.

I remember back in 1991 paying the equivalent of 100 Euros for a ticket to the German Grand Prix, which I could just about justify, but as F1 prices went a long way north of that it became something I wasn't interested in paying. Obviously there's a point where perhaps I might think the same of Le Mans, but as is the case with all instances of Sorites Paradox, it's impossible to identify where that might be.

Looking at notional competition I think it's got a long way to go before it gets out of proportion. In an era when a cinema ticket is 15 Euros, a concert ticket 40 or so (all in), and the last Covent Garden tickets I saw were around the 100 Euro mark the cost of the weekend doesn't look bad at all.

[Adam43]

Sorties Paradox? You're wasted here.

It's true, the price of events of any kind is expensive now. However, there are more events, more expensive rock come back tours, more disposable cash even in today's austerity. It seems. It is all kind of strange, but 100 euros is pretty standard nowadays.

[vincegail]

Le Mans indeed incredible value for money. Let's hope it stays that way! don't add too much grains of sand please!
Thanks for enlighten me on this paradox
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorites_paradox

[Dead-Eye]

Anyone got the numbers for previous Spa races? I've been going each year since 2009, and I would have sworn that saturday was the best attendance I've seen.

[GT6]

Le mans attracts the kind of attendance no other sporting event can if they try to bring the prices up to fast then those huge numbers will drop fast with the local french being the first to disappear, the travelling fans may accept a large increase but not locals

[isynge]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

Anyone got the numbers for previous Spa races? I've been going each year since 2009, and I would have sworn that saturday was the best attendance I've seen.

Absolutely agree with this.

The more I think about it the more I'm inclined to take the article citing 14,000 attendance with a pinch of salt.

[ger80]

Too many people jumped over the fence then ...

[Coach Ep]

E-I talks about 35.000 here: http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...nce-17881.html

By my own memory, 2011 seemed like the most crowded one.

[isynge]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

E-I talks about 35.000 here: http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...nce-17881.html

By my own memory, 2011 seemed like the most crowded one.

As should perhaps be expected, the E-I piece comes across as considerably more level headed.

Looking at financial realities, 35,000 at even the advance price of 25 Euros brings in a gate of 875,000 Euros. Taking away circuit hire (68,000 apparently, which does seem a bit small), a notional 100,000 for local promotion, another notional 100,000 for the wider media buy (paying Eurosport / Motors / RLM to cover it), and making a 20% contribution to overheads you're still looking at turning a reasonable profit, in fact using these sort of numbers even a gate of 14,000 can get you into the black.

Obviously there are probably other costs involved - but equally the promotional budget I've shoved in there is completely arbitrary and may be too high - you also need to factor in what coming in from Audi, DHL, and Tudor for trackside advertising, and whatever you can get from hospitality etc (I really don't see Toyota getting the presence they had for free).

All this said, when has sportscar racing ever made huge financial sense?

[gustavobamba]

Doing some fast calculations, the difference in top speed from Spa to LE MANS is about 10%.

So with the top speed in Spa 2013 around 308 km/h (both AUdi and Toyota) we could see a top speed in Le mans around 338km/h, but with low drag version´s of both car´s the 2013 le Mans could go to around 342-345 km/h.

Did anyone misses the time when prototypes were fliyng at 350-360 km/h

Some time ago someone present that with the 2014 rules LMP 1 cars will barely passes the 300-310 km/h mark. Is that really true??? Please no..........

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by gustavobamba

Some time ago someone present that with the 2014 rules LMP 1 cars will barely passes the 300-310 km/h mark. Is that really true??? Please no..........

They were probably extrapolating data from the current-day prototypes and factoring in power and relative surface areas. But even if we see that kind of figure next year, rest assured, within one or two years at most we'll be back towards 330-340, because one thing that engineers do very well is develop around boundaries set to them by the rules.

[gustavobamba]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

They were probably extrapolating data from the current-day prototypes and factoring in power and relative surface areas. But even if we see that kind of figure next year, rest assured, within one or two years at most we'll be back towards 330-340, because one thing that engineers do very well is develop around boundaries set to them by the rules.

Let´s hope so

[Stagger Lee]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

They were probably extrapolating data from the current-day prototypes and factoring in power and relative surface areas. But even if we see that kind of figure next year, rest assured, within one or two years at most we'll be back towards 330-340, because one thing that engineers do very well is develop around boundaries set to them by the rules.

Is this because of the fuel flow cap? Taking a peek at the regs it doesn't look like anything is severely limiting the engines apart from that.

(Technological imbecile reporting in >_>)

[Mal]

Sportscar racing is once again (as always?) in a period of change with the new 2014 regs the USCR and the potential for further changes in 2016 to some classes. How do you see this developing over the next few years and what will we be watching in the latter part of the decade?

[GT6]

regulations are always changing but we will still be watching gt's and prototypes they will look pretty similar but change will happen.

[Speed-King]

Just a heads up: The ADAC GT-Masters races from Spa this weekend will be streamed on www.ran.de

Today's and tomorrow's races will both start at noon CET. I can't guarantee that the stream won't be geo-blocked, though I trust y'all can find ways around that if you really want to. And the commentary will be in German.

[GT3.14]

Loeb and Ogier to battle once again, not in Rallying, but in the Monaco round of the Porsche Supercup. Very cool.
http://www.sebastien-ogier.com/fr/ac...ercup-a-monaco

[Speed-King]

http://www.gt-tour.fr/webtv/

Live stream from today's French GT race in Imola, started fifteen minutes ago.

[Eryk03]

Anyone watching Superstars International series?

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Eryk03

Anyone watching Superstars International series?

Its more of a touring car series, theres a thread in the European Touring cars subforum thats full of goings on in the championship. Doesnt seem to have a large following on tenths. Love the cars though, beautiful loud production based V8 monsters. Except for the Camaro, that thing looks awful.

[Eryk03]

Yeah, so true.

[jasonjessica09]

How would you rank your favorite classes in sportscar racing? Here is what I have from favorite to least favorite

1. GTE/GTLM (obviously)
2. FIA GT3 (very very close 2nd)
3. P1 (I like that these cars are mostly coupes now)
4. DP (only because of the Corvette DPs which I like, lose the generic rileys please)
5. P2 (find this class boring, won't miss it if disapears from USCR)
6. PC (find this boring too)
7. GTC/GTD (field fillers, not considered top level sportscar class)

[Maelochs]

1. P1 Real racing prototypes---what it's all about
2. GTE/GTLM Real racing GTs (most of 'em) But BoP is always a problem here and always will be now that cars are purely commercial products and racing is an afterthought
3. FIA GT3 Real Racing GTs but as with GTE, BoP is always an issue
4. P2 Lower-cost modern prototypes--the entry-level, pro-Am class
5. PC Even lower cost modern prototypes--shouldn't be in a top-tier series but the top of the support series
6. GTC/GTD Should be the support series GT class
7. DP Should be historic racers