Driving standards/ stewarding

[Taxi645]

Good analyses I think from Joylon Palmer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXcKvEw7JVQ

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

Good analyses I think from Joylon Palmer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXcKvEw7JVQ

Totally ignores the steering angle Perez has on, he was never going to make it even if Lando gave him room, Perez is in the gravel before he even attempts to release the steering

[S griffin]

I think the way that hairpin is designed, it’s always going to be tricky to go round the outside. It’s tight, then opens out

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by sizzle

Totally ignores the steering angle Perez has on, he was never going to make it even if Lando gave him room, Perez is in the gravel before he even attempts to release the steering

Already discussed. Even if Perez would not have been able to drive a tighter trajectory (which I doubt based on the footage), Norris should still have left room on the track as required by the rules. Only if Perez then would have really dropped into the gravel or Norris would've cleared him, he couldn't gone on to use the whole track width.


Another viewpoint: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/a...e-of-f1-racing

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

Another viewpoint: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/a...e-of-f1-racing

good article.

im def in the category of disliking whatever is bad for Norris!

but being objective, i thought this was a very interesting point:

If that had been allowed, then every driver would defend the inside into every corner and force the attacking car off the track on the exit, so you can’t attempt to overtake around the outside anymore. And you’re never going to be allowed the inside line, so you’re just not allowed to try and overtake.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

good article.

im def in the category of disliking whatever is bad for Norris!

but being objective, i thought this was a very interesting point:

If that had been allowed, then every driver would defend the inside into every corner and force the attacking car off the track on the exit, so you can’t attempt to overtake around the outside anymore. And you’re never going to be allowed the inside line, so you’re just not allowed to try and overtake.

I haven't read the article, but that quote above. There are holes in that argument. It is written as if you are able to somehow protect everywhere all at once. If the corner is narrow or fast, then that can be true. Which is why you just can't always expect to overtake in every corner. But we clearly see examples of people protecting the inside line hard (bit of an early apex) which results in a wide exit that opens up the inside on the exit. So a passing driver can setup entry differently, use a slightly later apex, then pass on the inside on corner exit.

I am sort of worn out on this topic. I don't know why I posted the above.

Richard

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I am sort of worn out on this topic. I don't know why I posted the above.

[peterelise]

Originally Posted by sizzle

Totally ignores the steering angle Perez has on, he was never going to make it even if Lando gave him room, Perez is in the gravel before he even attempts to release the steering

This is what I thought as well. In my view, Lando gave him room in the sense he didn’t push him off and Perez took himself off with too much acceleration too early. The argument that Lando should still be penalised because he used all the road on exit is in my opinion flawed. If you have a car outside you trying to pass and who is on the accelerator, surely it is ok for the guy on the inside to also be on the accelerator and use as much road as the guy on the outside is not using. It is ludicrous to say Lando should have left Perez space when Perez wasn’t using it.

In my view, this lack of contact was a clear differentiating factor between Lando on Perez and Perez on Leclerc. On both occasions, Perez hit Leclrec when Leclerc was alongside. I confess to not being a fan of Perez and his driving style which has always been to put people off, including his past teammates on numerous occasions so I come to this incident carrying that starting opinion. I found it particularly rich of him to claim in the interview pen afterwards that this wasn’t his style ???

[Taxi645]

This segment of yesterday's sprint race is exactly what I mean (3:19):

https://youtu.be/yd6wp8p8Bws?t=199

Ricciardo has just passed Alonso, but the latter is not giving up without a fight. Exiting Luffield Alonso is on the outside but quite a bit back. However Ricciardo is still leaving him racing room on the track and doesn't let his car drift wide onto the kerb.

That's mutual respect and provides the trust to go side by side in the most tense situations. No one would've thought anything of it if he had let his car run wide, but still he makes sure he leaves Alonso room just to be sure and we had a nice battle continuing for half a lap.

[GT6]

Well i suspect the standards of driving and the stewards might provoke some comments after that

[Aysedasi]

Not really. They adjudged the crash to be Hamilton's fault (or predominantly his, I guess). As to the penalty, I confess I had expected a stop and go.

Shame really as I had a few bob on Lando E/W for a top 3......

[S griffin]

It seemed a risky move by Lewis, especially on the first lap. It wasn’t intentional, but he could have shown a bit more patience, as he still had a long way to go and a great car under him. Merc seemed to be on top form today, but it was good to see others like Leclerc and the underrated Norris up there

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by GT6

Well i suspect the standards of driving and the stewards might provoke some comments after that

Complete and utter joke and whoever was in the room all weekend needs to stand up on camera and explain why Russell got 3 places for a nothing incident and Hamilton got 10 seconds for taking out a car letting his car drift out and pretending he couldn't make the corner.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by S griffin

It seemed a risky move by Lewis, especially on the first lap. It wasn’t intentional, but he could have shown a bit more patience, as he still had a long way to go and a great car under him. Merc seemed to be on top form today, but it was good to see others like Leclerc and the underrated Norris up there

Course it was risky, and Lewis knew that it was becoming even riskier at the point he had no choice but to lift when he was alongside Max. By then it was too late, the contact was inevitable.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Complete and utter joke and whoever was in the room all weekend needs to stand up on camera and explain why Russell got 3 places for a nothing incident and Hamilton got 10 seconds for taking out a car letting his car drift out and pretending he couldn't make the corner.

Everything must have blame and a penalty.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

but he could have shown a bit more patience, as he still had a long way to go

I think yesterday's Sprint is a reason why he felt he could not have shown patience.

[Aysedasi]

I'm not sure that any patience was shown by either of them on that first half lap. It was never going to be either!

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I'm not sure that any patience was shown by either of them on that first half lap. It was never going to be either!

This may be the true unintended consequence of having a race start the day before during the sprint.

They showed their hands yesterday and acted, in hindsight, in what can now be described as an easily predictable way today.

[Sodemo]

Let me just say that I am not a huge fan of either driver, but it seems to me as though Verstappen invites this kind of outcome from the way he races with others. He had effectively blocked off Hamilton on several occasions in a robust manner and I think Lewis was just not going to back down in this occasion.

I also put some of the blame on the grey area that is tarmac run off. It blurs the lines between what drivers can and can’t use as the racetrack and I’ve noticed a deterioration in driving standards since the grey menace appeared. For me, Verstappen isn’t making that corner but I don’t think Lewis is either, it’s only because Lewis got on the breaks after the impact that he made the corner. So in my view, both cars were heading off track and when you don’t have clearly defined track boundries that’s when confusion and miscommunication sets in between drivers.

[Casper]

And the internet goes into melt down. Twenty years ago it might have gotten one paragraph but most likely a single sentence. Anyone who has not done open wheeler racing will not understand the results and risks of wheel contact and aggressive driving which causes it gets a result or worse such as this. One big yawn really but F1 is now so tribal the post race furor was always going to happen. This sort of reaction will eventually make F1 the sort of sport that football has become in Europe if it hasn't already and that will be a sad day indeed. Comments such as he (Hamilton) should die have never in my knowledge been seen before but the media will lap it up and regurgitate it as long as they can. The day F1 died.....maybe for a few people it did.

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by Casper

And the internet goes into melt down. Twenty years ago it might have gotten one paragraph but most likely a single sentence. Anyone who has not done open wheeler racing will not understand the results and risks of wheel contact and aggressive driving which causes it gets a result or worse such as this. One big yawn really but F1 is now so tribal the post race furor was always going to happen. This sort of reaction will eventually make F1 the sort of sport that football has become in Europe if it hasn't already and that will be a sad day indeed. Comments such as he (Hamilton) should die have never in my knowledge been seen before but the media will lap it up and regurgitate it as long as they can. The day F1 died.....maybe for a few people it did.

While I appreciate the irony of me saying this on the internet, but the internet has made all these things 1000x worse.

[steve nielsen]

It was a desperate move by Lewis that would have never worked with the line he had.

Max is not Bottas, Lewis seems to have forgotten how to race, every time he has to do real racing it ends woth him hitting a Red Bull, ask Albon about that

[rbs]

Have a look at the overhead film, after passing the gantry MV moves left and allows LH inside, as they turn into copse they are almost side by side then MV turns in aggresively, dont think its anyones fault but a real racing incident. But MV has to cut the aggression on these 1st laps or it will happen again as LH will obviously not give way every time. Great drive by Leclerc though.

[BertMk2]

As mentioned above I was surprised how small the penalty was, it appeared to be clearly Hamilton's fault but the penalty given was never going to have much consequence. It was only the unexpected pace of LeClerc that meant the result was ever in any doubt. Did Hamilton get any points on his licence for the incident?

I don't in any way think it was intentional from Lewis, he just left it too late to brake given the line he was on - he wasn't going to make the corner (if he'd managed to hit the apex he'd probably have got past cleanly) and Max was between Lewis and the runoff so got biffed.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by rbs

Have a look at the overhead film, after passing the gantry MV moves left and allows LH inside, as they turn into copse they are almost side by side then MV turns in aggresively, dont think its anyones fault but a real racing incident. But MV has to cut the aggression on these 1st laps or it will happen again as LH will obviously not give way every time. Great drive by Leclerc though.

Seems to happen a bit with Lewis

Feeder series
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukfXBxcuibg
v Massa Singapore 2011
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXKas-9N_2Q
v Massa India 2011
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qIbM7kGIJw
v Webber Canada 2011
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6zCYJxxgyI
v Alex Albon Austria 2020
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHBgQw5OecA
v Verstappen Britain 2021
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIKel6jVD3Q


learned the block pass in motox