[BTCC] BTCC 2018 - Rounds 13, 14, 15 - Croft

[Redshift]

Wasn't the boost increase given to the Subarus a correction of a TOCA miscalculation of their original boost level?

[Racer65]

Originally Posted by Redshift

Wasn't the boost increase given to the Subarus a correction of a TOCA miscalculation of their original boost level?

Yes it was and it was tiny at 20 millibars. 5hp at most according to those who should know. The conspiracy theorists seem to be implying that TOCA gave them far more and lied about it...

I had a similar situation with my own club race car a few years back. I had endless issues with it for the first half of the season either not finishing or being well down. As soon as I resolved those issues I won a double header and promptly had my engine stripped after protests. Nothing wrong with it of course but those who hadn't been paying attention to my issues couldn't grasp how I could suddenly go from the back to the front. Sound familiar?

[S griffin]

I think the series is just fine, the field has never more close and competitive, that's why the performance of cars changes meeting to meeting

[coppice]

The series' very existence depends upon the organisers adjusting specs , imposing performance penalties to give the public the show they seem to want . The collateral damage of a regime like that is that unsuccessful teams will moan about successful ones , the reasons for that success and the motivation behind it . BTCC is a very successful reality TV show and that's just fine as long as we accept that is all it is .



The alternative is to have one set of non adjustable rules, perhaps also with a class system - as the then BSCC used to have . The fan demographic was confined more to the hardcore enthusiast rather than casual TV watchers but I certainly enjoyed it far more with a diversity of engine configurations and sizes than the current near homogenity. There was something very endearing about watching a minnow like a Metro Turbo humble big power Rovers and BMWs etc in the wet .

[S griffin]

I think it’s a bit of a stretch to call it a reality show. It certainly has a few gimmicks here and there, but everyone knows where they are with them. Close racing is what we get and that’s why it’s one of the best motorsports ATM

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by coppice

The series' very existence depends upon the organisers adjusting specs , imposing performance penalties to give the public the show they seem to want . The collateral damage of a regime like that is that unsuccessful teams will moan about successful ones , the reasons for that success and the motivation behind it . BTCC is a very successful reality TV show and that's just fine as long as we accept that is all it is .



The alternative is to have one set of non adjustable rules, perhaps also with a class system - as the then BSCC used to have . The fan demographic was confined more to the hardcore enthusiast rather than casual TV watchers but I certainly enjoyed it far more with a diversity of engine configurations and sizes than the current near homogenity. There was something very endearing about watching a minnow like a Metro Turbo humble big power Rovers and BMWs etc in the wet .

A very good summation of the current situation, a possible alternative , and what's happened in the past. I enjoyed those 'good old days' too, but yet, I'd guess I was what would have been called a hardcore enthusiast. The current package certainly draws in much bigger crowds and the live TV coverage accesses many more people, far better that the races being show a couple of weeks later on Grandstand, but not at the originally published time so if you'd set the machine to record it, you'll probably get 20 minutes of horse racing or tiddlywinks instead! (I know I did.)

[S griffin]

Yes, I too remember when we usually had to wait a week or two for highlights on Grabdstand. Now we have the whole package live

[Sodemo]

Does Subaru have the same RWD based performance balancing as the BMWs?

So do the Subaru’s have the long first gear, restricted boost up to 120kph and the 30kg extra base weight?

[Racer65]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Does Subaru have the same RWD based performance balancing as the BMWs?

So do the Subaru’s have the long first gear, restricted boost up to 120kph and the 30kg extra base weight?

Never read anything to the contrary and they also have ballast to raise the CoG of the car to try and counteract the advantage of the low slung engine.

I assume that weight comes out of the minimum weight of the car rather than being an additional weight over and above the BMW's.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Does Subaru have the same RWD based performance balancing as the BMWs?

So do the Subaru’s have the long first gear, restricted boost up to 120kph and the 30kg extra base weight?

yes

[mattcanary]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

The BMWs didn’t seem that great out of the hairpins and their straight line speed seemed down too, in fact looking at the speed trap speeds, the BMWs are among the slowest in a straight line. I too noticed that the Subaru’s seemed far better out of the hairpin.

BMWs have never been a rocketship in a straight line, like the Subarus.

I've always thought that Ford and Toyotas are amongst the quickest in a straight line

[auroan]

Hopefully this article puts to bed some of the nonsense I've seen spread across the forums and Facebook recently;

https://www.touringcartimes.com/2018...success-croft/

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by auroan

Hopefully this article puts to bed some of the nonsense I've seen spread across the forums and Facebook recently;

https://www.touringcartimes.com/2018...success-croft/

Interesting article, and definitely seems to be an objective review of the situation.

A couple of points struck me though, particularly given the relationship between BMR and Alan Gow in the past:

“We brought in some aerodynamic upgrades, cooling updates, induction updates and centre of gravity height updates,” Performance Engineer Tony Carrozza explained. “TOCA has been penalising us with the centre of gravity height since 2017”

I hope, (and sure that it will be the case) that they have opted to go down a different route with their application of the ballast/height calculation? The Ballast/Height calculation is a TOCA-imposed measure so I can't see how BMR can bring in updates to that?

Describing the centre of gravity height as a 'penalty' is probably not the best option though?

[Sodemo]

Is any consideration given to WSR in terms of the COG as their engine being longitudinally mounted is surely the highest mounted engine on the grid?

This was also the case with BMW and Audi in the supertouring days.

[auroan]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Is any consideration given to WSR in terms of the COG as their engine being longitudinally mounted is surely the highest mounted engine on the grid?

This was also the case with BMW and Audi in the supertouring days.

eh ? Why do you think having a longitudinal engine means is mounted higher than a transverse engine ?

If anything it's mounted lower than the transverse as it's further back in the bulkhead and behind the front axle. Where as a transverse engine sits marginally above the front axle due to the gearbox/diff configuration.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by auroan

eh ? Why do you think having a longitudinal engine means is mounted higher than a transverse engine ?

If anything it's mounted lower than the transverse as it's further back in the bulkhead and behind the front axle. Where as a transverse engine sits marginally above the front axle due to the gearbox/diff configuration.

Supertouring transverse engines were always buried deep in the engine bay. The longitudinal engines were always much much higher.

[auroan]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Supertouring transverse engines were always buried deep in the engine bay. The longitudinal engines were always much much higher.

This isn't super touring. And I suspect you have it the wrong way round judging at the pictures of super touring era engine bays on google.

[Racer65]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I hope, (and sure that it will be the case) that they have opted to go down a different route with their application of the ballast/height calculation? The Ballast/Height calculation is a TOCA-imposed measure so I can't see how BMR can bring in updates to that?

Describing the centre of gravity height as a 'penalty' is probably not the best option though?

There was a post a few pages back about them raising the car height up. I suspect the CoG "penalty" is a combination of ridge height and weight so if they increase one they can decrease the other and still be within the rules.

[RS67]

Originally Posted by auroan

This isn't super touring. And I suspect you have it the wrong way round judging at the pictures of super touring era engine bays on google.

The Mondeo transverse V6 was mounted on it's side and so low and far back in the engine bay, the drive shaft ran between the cylinder heads.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Racer65

There was a post a few pages back about them raising the car height up. I suspect the CoG "penalty" is a combination of ridge height and weight so if they increase one they can decrease the other and still be within the rules.

Yes, when the CoG changes were introduced, it was a sliding scale of ride height vs ballast. Reading between the lines of comments from BMR since that point, it seems that they initially opted for a higher ride height. Perhaps they have now dropped the car and taken the ballast - possibly because they have been able to save weight elsewhere and can now get a better balance?

[BobJones]

Originally Posted by auroan

Hopefully this article puts to bed some of the nonsense I've seen spread across the forums and Facebook recently;

https://www.touringcartimes.com/2018...success-croft/

Importantly, it highlights how much of an engineering and development race the BTCC is. Yes, common parts, blah blah blah, but also there are still elements that need developing by teams.

[S griffin]

Exactly, there will always be ways to make the car better and that is part of the fascination of motorsport