[WEC Race] 2013 FIA WEC - Round 7 - 6 Hours of Shanghai

[Maelochs]

Freakin' Amazing!!

Brilliant strategy and Toyota gets to actually race on pace for the win. fantastic.

[Acid09]

There's no way Wurz is holding him off for half an hour.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Bloody P2

[Acid09]

This was inevitable. Treluyer is just too good and Wurz isn't exactly the fastest of the Toyota guys.

Meh.

[gwyllion]

Go Treluyer!! Fantastic move

[EricS]

Grr well that didn't take long... Poor 'yota

[Starfish Primer]

Amazing Treluyer, top move.

[Acid09]

This is such a joke, Audi doing 297kph on the straight all of a sudden.

They have such a power advantage if they want to, this is not right.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Acid09

This is such a joke, Audi doing 297kph on the straight all of a sudden.

They have such a power advantage if they want to, this is not right.

Next year expect the VAG advantage to get even larger. More and more budget/money required.

[Acid09]

Wurz is simply way too cautious in traffic, you can literally see him lose time there compared to guys like Treluyer or Davidson.

He's certainly very important for car development but simply the wrong driver to put in a car for a late-race dash to the flag.

[Beryl]

I'm not surprised, but it's quite unfortunate what has transpired.

[Maelochs]

If Audi has more speed now, it is because they are not interested in mileage—they are racing on pure pace. Obviously Audi has turned up the boost and the fuel and whatever else that can to make more power because … Why Not> They either are faster and win, or they lose because the run dry or are too slow.

Also, recall earlier that Tréluyer was doing race-fastest laps a couple hours ago?


I really wanted to see Toyota win this one, but ... this is what some folks call "racing." And what a race.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Wurz is simply way too cautious in traffic, you can literally see him lose time there compared to guys like Treluyer or Davidson.

He's certainly very important for car development but simply the wrong driver to put in a car for a late-race dash to the flag.

Too bad Nakajima isnt with them. Hes a good closer. But when Audi starts puffing its game over

[Maelochs]

I think maybe Toyota put on soft tires--the right call for cool temps--and Wurz totally cooked them in this first few laps trying to stay ahead of Treluyer.

Oh, well ... Bahrain will be hot throughout the night, so maybe Toyota can salvage one win this season.

[Victor_RO]

Congratulations to Audi for the win and the titles.

Next year it won't be so easy...

[Beryl]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Congratulations to Audi for the win and the titles.

Next year it won't be so easy...

Indeed, the rule changes can't come soon enough. The diesel advantage is a bit sickening.

[TF110]

Very unfortunate for Toyota. Both cars having issues and the #8 suspension was a real killer. GT wasn't much of a race for the win, but Kobayashi made it interesting.

[Maelochs]

I don't see where the "Diesel Advantage" played a factor. Audi never showed any pace late that it didn't show early, and Toyota just about matched that pace through the middle of the race.

I think Toyota needed Lapierre for the last stint--and maybe a different tire compound. And if Davidson hadn't broken, we would be talking about the great race for second while congratulating Toyota.

Toyota had some terrible luck with the #8, and the #7---they made the perfect strategy call, they had a chance to win the race on pace, and in the final laps, Audi ran as well as it had all day and Toyota couldn't equal it's best performance.

I fully agree that Audi had half-a-dozen years of the rules being written to keep them (and Peugeot) on top, but what i saw at Shanghai was Audi stepping up when it was needed and Toyota falling down when it couldn't afford the slightest slip.

Seriously, what more could Toyota have wanted? The first time they had pace on Audi, the race came down to a pure-pace sprint. Head to head, Toyota just lost.

I don't want to insult Toyota's efforts, nor Audi's victory, by pretending that it wasn't a fair fight.

Tell me, how many people were talking about "the Diesel Advantage" before the #8 broke?

[TF110]

They had older tires. Not much they could do about it. Lapierre spinning and their tire puncture didn't help with the gap staying in Toyota's favor.

[Beryl]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

I don't see where the "Diesel Advantage" played a factor. Audi never showed any pace late that it didn't show early, and Toyota just about matched that pace through the middle of the race.

I think Toyota needed Lapierre for the last stint--and maybe a different tire compound. And if Davidson hadn't broken, we would be talking about the great race for second while congratulating Toyota.

Toyota had some terrible luck with the #8, and the #7---they made the perfect strategy call, they had a chance to win the race on pace, and in the final laps, Audi ran as well as it had all day and Toyota couldn't equal it's best performance.

I fully agree that Audi had half-a-dozen years of the rules being written to keep them (and Peugeot) on top, but what i saw at Shanghai was Audi stepping up when it was needed and Toyota falling down when it couldn't afford the slightest slip.

Seriously, what more could Toyota have wanted? The first time they had pace on Audi, the race came down to a pure-pace sprint. Head to head, Toyota just lost.

I don't want to insult Toyota's efforts, nor Audi's victory, by pretending that it wasn't a fair fight.

Tell me, how many people were talking about "the Diesel Advantage" before the #8 broke?

The "diesel advantage" is about the whole season, not this race. I posted (in this thread) during hour two, when the #1 was a minute off the lead, that it could still win this race. Toyota never had a real pace advantage, they built up a lead because the Audis really struggled with tires during the first stint, but after that the #1 was fine. Lotterer brought things back to normal before Treluyer tore chunks out of the Toyotas and made it a race.

Toyota had bad luck but they also blew it. The #7 had a slow pit stop and Lapierre's spin, without those two issues the #7 would have won the race despite the unfortunately timed puncture (which Audi #1 also had earlier in the race, though it proved less detrimental as they had more time to make a strategy around it and adjust stints).

[sepulhead]

Did the nr 8 suspension broke due the contact with the nr 1 in the first hour of the race?

[rich07]

Just saw the photos from the pit fire of Larbre, wow, thankfully no one was seriously injured.

Any video of the incident floating around? I didnt realise the race was on tonight.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by EricS

#7 with splash & dash! and back out in the lead! Only 2 second advantage. Wurz vs. Treluyer. Will be awesome finish!

It was a good shot, but Treluyer and the new tyres weren't to be denied.

Congratulations to the new World Champs too.

[hcl123]

Originally Posted by Beryl

Indeed, the rule changes can't come soon enough. The diesel advantage is a bit sickening.

Well there is a good solution for that... a diesel Toyota, and perhaps a French or someone else on Mechacrome diesel, because this year not counting Fuji that wasn't even a race, was 6 -0... and that was too easy not really the most enthusiastic, since seems clear the advantage of diesel is that they *can't* run all the time with "the throat full open for fuel" (wonder if they are already experimenting for next year with fuel flow controls)... LOL... because of the much LESS fuel tank capacity (~20% less now, next year will be ~22% less) stupid rule.

When the Audis go on full possible fuel flow, then while before they seemed slower now they are clearly faster... and that seems what happened here.

# of pit stops for Audi #1 and Toyota # 8 was the same ( how should always be, won on track), and the time spent on pit ~ the same, 9min 37 sec for Audi #1, and 9 min 39 sec for Toyota # 7 ... and if you analyze the pit performances http://fiawec.alkamelsystems.com/index.html ( Pit Stop Analysis on 6 hours) it seems clear the Audi only went with full tank capacity (real full tank) on the last 2 stints, when the fuel flow was all open a Treullier taught a lesson...

So the the myth of diesel fuel disadvantage is a stupid myth, its only fuel tank capacity disadvantage... and even with ~20% less capacity, diesel don't need all the tank capacity to be on the same pace of Toyota petrol, matter of fact Audi #2 that seemed a little slower all the race managed to make one less pit stop than the leading pair ( 7 vs 8 )... there goes the myth !.. matter of fact, even with much more fuel available, the Toyotas only managed to be on the same pace or faster than a fuel flow restricted Audi because of the *hybrid factor*, that benefits them tremendously in this kind of circuit.

Next year will be even more advantageous for Audi since it seems the only diesel (ppl don't seem to understand that competition diesels only have 8 years of development -much more knobs to tweak-, while SI petrol have 100 )... even with fuel flow restrictions, and less comparative fuel tank capacity.

Its time for ppl to face reality, there goes 8 years of complains *** SPECIALLY*** trying to restrict diesels with no avail, this kind of SI Petrol engine architecture is damn obsolete, even GDI wont cut the mustard i'm afraid, and if FIA/ACO are really about "efficiency" ( lol a ruse) its time to promote diesel that are not only extraordinarily more fuel economic but also faster ( and this is real efficiency). For this only have to NOT touch rules for years (safe safety concerns), much specially during a season( automatically makes diesel solution budget much smaller).

[ the path seems clear, augment a little displacement, and with turbo charging augment the effective compression ratio on those diesels, and its possible to have more torque and power for the same fuel... then play with transmission to lower average running RPMs for fuel economy ]

It would be beneficial for road cars, diesels are not only more economic, they could be faster on 0-60mph or 1/4 mile than *any* comparative petrols... the problem is transmissions, the transmissions of petrol don't suit diesel (the mistake all constructors do)... its not one but several i've heard (including friends) that tweak diesel cars but then lose the usefulness of the 1th gear( they can go faster starting from 0 with 2th gear, tweak for torque and power and that is what happens)

[Lagunaseca_4life]

That was a good race.to bad I fell asleep in the last 30 minutes, I can't believe after everything toyota lost this.but even then they lost by a small gap,good for them.hope they step it up for next year.i still wonder what exactly was damaged on the #8 Toyota, it didn't seem that bad.unless it had damaged suspension mounts? It just seemed to me like they really didn't care to fix it.well maybe it was for safety issues hopefully.