Spec-R BARN FIND!Rare Geoff Woods Mk1 Hart Escort Special Saloon

[celes1]

If the engine was any further back Pete, it would be considered a rear engined special saloon.

The Lucas fuel injection on this Hart engine is a real pain to set up, will it be done when you send the engine back to Hart for refurbishment.

[celes1]

Thanks Pete for the pics of the Escort. I have noticed you haven't put this picture on the forum that shows how close the Hart engine is to the driver, the induction noise must be very loud for the driver.

OOP's, missed out image, see below.

[celes1]

Originally Posted by celes1

Thanks Pete for the pics of the Escort. I have noticed you haven't put this picture on the forum that shows how close the Hart engine is to the driver, the induction noise must be very loud for the driver.


OOP's missed out the image , see below to view the engine.

Here is the pic of the Hart engine.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by celes1

Here is the pic of the Hart engine.

Scary!!! The noise, vibrations and as has been mentioned before fumes must have been on another level!

[Mike Harte]

One thing that strikes me as odd is that I am almost 100% certain that in the 60s' days of Special Saloons we had to have a firewall between the engine and the driver's compartment. In fact, one of the reasons that Richard Scantlebury's Janglia was in a specialist's workshop, alongside my car (there for the rear wheel arches), was because they were creating the firewall because the straight six protruded beyond where the original bulkhead would have been.

You also had to have a firewall between the driver's compartment and where the fuel tank was situated.

[celes1]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

One thing that strikes me as odd is that I am almost 100% certain that in the 60s' days of Special Saloons we had to have a firewall between the engine and the driver's compartment. In fact, one of the reasons that Richard Scantlebury's Janglia was in a specialist's workshop, alongside my car (there for the rear wheel arches), was because they were creating the firewall because the straight six protruded beyond where the original bulkhead would have been.

You also had to have a firewall between the driver's compartment and where the fuel tank was situated.

I believe this Hart engine would have had alloy covering's surrounding it as well as the fuel tank on the passenger side, bloody scary if it hadn't.

Pete have you alloy firewalls with the car, if you haven't I would strongly recommend them and if you do have them, there are lightweight materials that line the back of the alloy sheets for fire retardation and also will help with the lowering of the decibels inside the cockpit.

[Andy Clegg]

This is the Jaguar super saloon from the 1975 meeting

[Mike Harte]

Andy, this is another difference in regulations between the 60s and 70s, because in the 60s, Special Saloon regs stated that the engine had to be mounted in original, or as near to the original, mounting point. So, as far as I can remember, the Janglia's straight six was mounted at the front not mid way through the cockpit, as was the engine in, say, Doc Merfield's V8 Cortina.

The above is as I remember it from 50 years ago; I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

[morninggents]

You are correct, Mike but then as now 'interpretations' came in to play. As long as the engine was in front of the centreline it was construed as front engined and behind the centreline as being rear engined. Simples. The layout of engine, gearbox and diff was another matter!

[Mike Harte]

Thanks for coming to my rescue, Peter. After I posted I thought that I might have been digging a very large hole for myself.

But am I right in assuming that engines were permitted to be uncovered right next to the driver? Had nobody considered a backfire causing flames to erupt from the carburettors' trumpets?

I go back to the original point about in the 60s not being allowed to have the fuel tank in the cockpit. We weren't even allowed to run fuel lines, copper ones if I remember, through the car which was the easiest route. They had to be under the floor-pan.

[morninggents]

I'm pretty sure you are right there. I seem to remember we always had to have a liquid proof firewall between the passenger compartment and the engine bay and boot area.

I expect that Geoff's Escort and the Jag XJ8 (Tony Hazlewood?) had them but probably removable items.

[Mike Bell]

As Peter says, 'firewalls' have been a requirement for many many years. I can remember having to fill surplus holes between the engine compartment and driver, and fuel tank and driver in the late 60s. On something like a super saloon the panels could have been removeable and still have been legal. Fuel tanks inside the car would have had to be similarly protected.

That Escort must have been soooo noisy to drive!

[celes1]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

As Peter says, 'firewalls' have been a requirement for many many years. I can remember having to fill surplus holes between the engine compartment and driver, and fuel tank and driver in the late 60s. On something like a super saloon the panels could have been removeable and still have been legal. Fuel tanks inside the car would have had to be similarly protected.

That Escort must have been soooo noisy to drive!

Absolutely positive this Hart Escort had alloy covers around the engine, gearbox and fuel tank when it was on the grid. Probably Pete at Spec-R will confirm he has them all and only took them off for pictures showing the engine.

It only goes to confirm what I indicated earlier that Geoff Wood would have had his senses dulled with the noise of the engine on full chat and excessive fumes in the cockpit. This was the reason why Geoff got physically sick racing it and slowed him down a tad.

It will be easy to vent the car when its being refurbished by Spec-R, although looking at the images that have been put on this posting, Andrew Grover the last driver in 1979 did alter certain airflow ducts in the Escort to alleviate some fume build up.

[GWOOD1170]

Any car not using a regular body tub was fitted with alloy sheet to separate the engine from the cab like you can just see here on my fathers car,hope that sorts your questions.....

[Dan Rear]

Pedants alert, and God knows I'm the last person to get technical...

But the car isn't a Hart Escort/Escort Hart is it? That implies it was powered by a Hart engine, ie a 420R or similar. I recall it was fitted with a BD series engine of some sort, albeit fettled by Mr Hart??

[celes1]

Originally Posted by Dan Rear

Pedants alert, and God knows I'm the last person to get technical...

But the car isn't a Hart Escort/Escort Hart is it? That implies it was powered by a Hart engine, ie a 420R or similar. I recall it was fitted with a BD series engine of some sort, albeit fettled by Mr Hart??

This Ex Geoff Wood Escort had the Hart 1850 unit, which was the BDA, fitted in this case with the ultimate Lucas fuel injection system and delivered approx 270 bhp. Pete at Spec-R confirmed the engine numbers that verify it was an original Hart engined Escort. Hart made many racing engines before the 420R which was a later development of a Hart engine.

Many engine builders, such as Burton and Ron Harris, SBD, Vulcan, Swindon all use their names as legitimate named engine builder descriptions.

I believe in this case, they even know who the original Hart engineer was, who bench built it, in around 1973.

[Mike Bell]

I think Dan's pedant point is that even though the Escort engine was built by Hart, it was a Cosworth BDA type. The Lucas mechanical injection you mention is the same as used in period by most engine builders, nothing unique.

As said earlier, Hart went on to design and build a unique engine, the 420R, so that engine is rightly designated a Hart. Whoever built / builds a BDA, be it Wilcox, Richardson, Mass, Hart etc., the engine is still usually referred to as a BDA.

BUT obviously the owner can call the car whatever he wants- it's their car!

[morninggents]

Yes the Hart 420R engine was longer than a BDA and a completely different engine with no, or little, Ford heritage.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by morninggents

Yes the Hart 420R engine was longer than a BDA and a completely different engine with no, or little, Ford heritage.

I fear we're going off topic here , but for clarity, Brian Hart was an independent engine builder with premises close to Ford at Boreham. He built competition engines for Ford, but they were badged Ford engines. He (off his own back) had an alloy block made for the BDA that allowed it to be taken to 2 litre capacity. The idea was to use it for F2. Ford saw the block, paid for patterns to be made and put it into production- as 1601cc in the RS1600 road car. That allowed the 2 litre version to be used in rallying and racing. The engine was designated BDG, but still a Ford engine, original design by Mike Duckworth / Cosworth. Brian's part in the engine's success was significant, of course, and many of Ford's rally wins were with engines built by his firm.

Hart then designed and built the 420R engine, which had outward similarities to the BDG, but as Peter says, was a completely different engine. So no Ford involvement, and the first true Hart engine.

Anyway, back to the topic- that fantastic Escort....

[celes1]

Anyway, back to the topic- that fantastic Escort.... [/QUOTE]


I agree, but it still has a specialist Hart built engine and anyway, I wonder if Hart would part sponsor this car, that would certainly help it being known as a Hart Escort, which I will personally know it as in the future.

Would the weight of 508kg make this Escort the lightest Special Saloon on the grid, even compared to the weight of the space framed Skoda's.

[morninggents]

Some of the space framed Imp or Skoda/Imp special saloons may have been a little lighter but I doubt any 2 litre cars were as light as that.
I wonder what Nick Whiting's space frame Escort weighed? His brother Charlie spannered for him back in the day- anyone know where he is now? He may have some data on the car from then!

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by celes1

I wonder if Hart would part sponsor this car,

I think we established on page 2 that Brian is sadly no longer with us and Hart Racing Engines no longer exist as a company.

Originally Posted by celes1

Would the weight of 508kg make this Escort the lightest Special Saloon on the grid, even compared to the weight of the space framed Skoda's.

Yes, that must have been one of the lightest cars out there. Out of curiosity, what gearbox and axle does it use?

[Dan Rear]

There was an old TopTrumps set that had some Supersaloons included. Weights were sometimes quoted, though I've no idea how accurate they were. I'll check later....

[celes1]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

I think we established on page 2 that Brian is sadly no longer with us and Hart Racing Engines no longer exist as a company.


Yes, that must have been one of the lightest cars out there. Out of curiosity, what gearbox and axle does it use?

1) I think Hart engines are still active and may be run by one of the old employee's, I believe Pete at Spec-R indicated he has already contacted them to rebuild the Hart BDA engine'

2) ZF gearbox from images, but not sure if four or five speed and the rear looks like Chevron, inboard discs and lots of GP car technology.

Pete can you confirm and put an image up for us.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by celes1

1) I think Hart engines are still active and may be run by one of the old employee's, I believe Pete at Spec-R indicated he has already contacted them to rebuild the Hart BDA engine'

As has been stated at least a couple of times, Hart's business was bought, lock, stock and barrel, by TWR who incorporated it into the Arrows' F1 team. Neither Hart or Arrows still exist. It is possible, however, for a former employee to be running a business that refurbishes engines, including any from Hart.

having re-read all this thread, Pete from Spec-R has not mentioned anything about who he might use to re-fettle the engine.