Miller on merger attempt

[icemachine]

Indystar is now reporting TG has pulled the offer, and what Robin Miller reported was apparently misstated.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../1052/SPORTS01

George, the IRL's chief executive officer, said that in meetings last fall with Champ Car's leadership, he offered to help its teams pay for IRL cars on the condition they participated in his series for at least two seasons. When none came forward in a timely manner, George chose to scrap his plan.

George said he told Kalkhoven and Forsythe in separate meetings that he would help teams acquire a new car and a used one as a backup for each full-season driver supported by a proper budget. He would not have bought the cars outright.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by gttouring

it looks like it might happen have you seen the latest?
NHL have left Champcar to the IRL?!
speedtv . com and Autoblog have the story
this was an ugly thing to happen but let's hope they can arrange it- 2008 is here but why not make it a go? some things can still do it and if team scramble a bit to test and what have you- they have all been there before it won't be that hard.
the sad story is Champcar Atlantics and IPS- do both stay?

Get your story straight. The autoblog story is a rehash of the autosport story which is a rehash of the robin miller story from last week. Haas said he is likely to do it, but hasn't confirmed anything.

We may know more soon as a press conference is happening at NHL to announce the 2008 driving line up of Wilson and Rahal.

[gttouring]

here is the new link a story from yesterday

http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/42769/

since you guys asked

[icemachine]

Well Haas won't be going anywhere this year, and from the way drivers announcements are starting to come out, it looks like we may have 1/2 the field confirmed by Sebring

NHLR - Wilson, Rahal
PKV - Servia, Tagliani?
PCM - Figge, Martinez?
FPR - Tracy, ?
Rocketsports - Bernoldi, ?
Team Minardi USA - Doornbos?, ?
Team Australia - Power?, ?
DCR - Junqueira?, ?
Conquest - ?, ?

[gttouring]

i just read that as well-
a rumor of this size could have caused alot of trouble... i apologize for my part

[fomoco]

WHy is it that " this is the best offer for Champ Car.
Americas wannebe "bernie" TG, created the split, vowed never to leave good old USA, wouldn't race on street cicuits, etc , yet it is He doing all talk, I offered them this , then offered them that, yadda yadda. When you contact IRL, thay deny anthing has been offered. No talks etc,

Yes, for a single OW series in the states , get rid of TG.
So before you support a poor mans "bernie", remeber, he stated it.

IMO, Keven and Gerry have done very well, and they have a larger fan base than Tg supporters think.

It is quite interesting that, TG offered to keep certain races, that he said he would never run. another wanne be.

[indycool]

fomoco, your post is better suited for CW.

In Miller's column, Nation confirmed there had been talks but did not comment on them.

Steady as it goes, sir.

[Kieran20]

Originally Posted by indycool

fomoco, your post is better suited for CW.

In Miller's column, Nation confirmed there had been talks but did not comment on them.

Steady as it goes, sir.

and all your posts are better suited for indycar!

[luke]

Originally Posted by Kieran20

and all your posts are better suited for indycar!

well tf.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by indycool

fomoco, your post is better suited for CW.

In Miller's column, Nation confirmed there had been talks but did not comment on them.

Steady as it goes, sir.

This is the champcar section on ten-tenths. So I'm guessing champcar supporters are allowed to express their opinion and like for champcar in this forum?

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../1052/SPORTS01

George said he told Kalkhoven and Forsythe in separate meetings that he would help teams acquire a new car and a used one as a backup for each full-season driver supported by a proper budget. He would not have bought the cars outright.
"I wasn't going to wholesale make that offer," George said. "I would make sure they had equipment; it would not necessarily be free."
Forsythe could not be reached for comment. Kalkhoven insisted he hasn't spoken with George "in nine months."
George said he made it clear the IRL would be the sanctioning body in a unified series. He offered to include several of the events that Kalkhoven and Forsythe own, such as the Long Beach (Calif.) Grand Prix, in future IRL schedules.

HOWEVER:

Champ Car co-owner Kevin Kalkhoven said George never formally made an offer to either him or partner Jerry Forsythe.
"I never, ever saw an offer from Tony George," Kalkhoven said. "We never received anything in writing."

It bears noting that Champ Car co-owner Kevin Kalkhoven said he hasn't spoken with George "in nine months" and that George never made an offer to either him or business partner, Jerry Forsythe.

"I never, ever saw an offer," Kalkhoven said, "and he didn't make it to Jerry."
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...992520922/1024

In all my experience, one thing that strikes me about all this is it is an offer made from a position of weakness. I just don't think tony has much liquid capital left. If he was serious, he'd put a business plan together and a presentation and go and make a serious offer. And end it now. Instead it's like, "Well maybe I'll help some teams with cars and maybe I'll sanction some of your races". It's almost a nonexistent offer, a non serious offer. It's almost just to say he tried. I think if he really wanted to end it now he could.

Listening to commentary on forums and editorials, one gist of these conversations I've picked up is people just want to end it now and that Champcar should take whatever is handed to them, no matter how poor the offer. What I would suggest is why don't you apply that same logic to Tony George and say hey man why don't you put a business plan and contract together and a sensible offer and solve this thing?

[indycool]

Well, KK said he wasn't involved in the talks. Forsythe hasn't said anything. I've heard the talks involved the 3 OTHER Amigos other than Kalkhoven.

As for something being in writing, it apparently didn't get past the discussion stage and a lot of the discussion was based on a letter from TG to KK in '05 as a foundation to wrangle out first.

Forsythe's demand of $100 million apparently pitched the whole discussion into the dumpster. The Amigos bought CART's assets off the courthouse steps for $3.2 million. In four years, it would take an infinite amount of bluster and BS to say it had appreciated in value 33 times since CC took over.

If Fomoco is new to the forum, I should apologize. If he's not, we've already read all of that for years, so it bores me.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by indycool

Well, KK said he wasn't involved in the talks. Forsythe hasn't said anything. I've heard the talks involved the 3 OTHER Amigos other than Kalkhoven.

As for something being in writing, it apparently didn't get past the discussion stage and a lot of the discussion was based on a letter from TG to KK in '05 as a foundation to wrangle out first.

Forsythe's demand of $100 million apparently pitched the whole discussion into the dumpster. The Amigos bought CART's assets off the courthouse steps for $3.2 million. In four years, it would take an infinite amount of bluster and BS to say it had appreciated in value 33 times since CC took over.

If Fomoco is new to the forum, I should apologize. If he's not, we've already read all of that for years, so it bores me.

Seeing as how KK and GF own most of champcar I'd consider it wise to involve them?

In any case, what I said before stands. It wasn't really a serious offer on the part of TG.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by indycool

Forsythe's demand of $100 million apparently pitched the whole discussion into the dumpster.

If this is even true.

Alot of what was first reported has turned out to be false, with the deal not sounding as rosy as it was originally painted.

With this in mind, I dont think any objective source would put weight behind the notion of GF wanting $100 million.

Originally Posted by indycool

If Fomoco is new to the forum, I should apologize. If he's not, we've already read all of that for years, so it bores me.

Excuse us then

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

If this is even true.

Alot of what was first reported has turned out to be false, with the deal not sounding as rosy as it was originally painted.

With this in mind, I dont think any objective source would put weight behind the notion of GF wanting $100 million.



Excuse us then

Agreed. Most of what Miller first reported was exaggerated or just plain false. The $100 million was never confirmed by anyone including tony george so I think we can put that aside until evidence presents itself.

Once the facts came out, it's all a bunch of hot air with no firm basis in reality.

[f1manoz]

Originally Posted by indycool

fomoco, your post is better suited for CW.

In Miller's column, Nation confirmed there had been talks but did not comment on them.

Steady as it goes, sir.

Your posts are more suited to TF or the IRL forum.

[f1manoz]

Originally Posted by indycool

Well, KK said he wasn't involved in the talks. Forsythe hasn't said anything. I've heard the talks involved the 3 OTHER Amigos other than Kalkhoven.

As for something being in writing, it apparently didn't get past the discussion stage and a lot of the discussion was based on a letter from TG to KK in '05 as a foundation to wrangle out first.

Forsythe's demand of $100 million apparently pitched the whole discussion into the dumpster. The Amigos bought CART's assets off the courthouse steps for $3.2 million. In four years, it would take an infinite amount of bluster and BS to say it had appreciated in value 33 times since CC took over.

If Fomoco is new to the forum, I should apologize. If he's not, we've already read all of that for years, so it bores me.

Considering the amount of money has been poured into the series by the Owners, is it any wonder they do want at least a settlement of a few million. Perhaps $100 million is a bit steep, but the Owners are simply going to roll over and submit to TG when his series isn't in much better shape either.

This will be an amalgamation or marriage of the series, NOT a takeover of one by the other.

[f1manoz]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

If this is even true.

Alot of what was first reported has turned out to be false, with the deal not sounding as rosy as it was originally painted.

With this in mind, I dont think any objective source would put weight behind the notion of GF wanting $100 million

The owner of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway is looking for ChampCar to capitulate, then he can force the ChampCar owners to kiss his feet as the 'conqueror'. Of what? Don't know really.

Frankly neither series is in a healthy state right now but I'm not going to repeat previous posts.

An amalgamation of the series would be a good thing for both as long as the circumstances are right, as in there is a sound financial basis, strong spectator support, a healthy calendar full of well-backed events, good-looking and well-performing cars and grid full of capable drivers.

Unfortunately, apart from one or two races, neither series is financially solid, spectator support for both is dwindling, neither calendar is great, the IRL cars are horrid to watch and look at, ChampCars look better but can't go on ovals and neither grid is full of top drivers.

But there doesn't look like there will be a deal for 2008, probably was never serious in the first place, and it's February tomorrow so far too late for anything to happen this year.

HOWEVER...

If TG and the ChampCar owners came together now to get things sorted, it could be sorted for 2009 and there could again be one series.

[indycool]

The CART series assets were worth $3.2 million off the courthouse steps. What's the series worth now?

[climb]

Asset evaluation is based on one principle: the ability of the asset to produce revenue; then the sum of the current and the discounted future revenues gives you the value of the asset.
This is called n.a.v. (net actual value).

What's CC worth now? Sum up the revenues, and discover how much the CC owners should pay to convince someone to purchase the series...

[climb]

Originally Posted by f1manoz

.., the IRL cars are horrid to watch and look at, ChampCars look better ...

This is not an issue, since, I think we can agree on this, the new series should start with a brand-new chassis.

[f1manoz]

Originally Posted by climb

This is not an issue, since, I think we can agree on this, the new series should start with a brand-new chassis.

Certainly agreed.

But I see no reason why Panoz and Dallara cannot make competing chassis if / when there is an amalgamation. Why just have a one-make series?

[indycool]

Panoz and Dallara did it before in IRL. There are still legal Panoz chassis around for the "500."

[fieldodreams79]

i don't care who fold's, who walks away or who runs. something needs to happen before everyone is racing stockcars. when that happens, these open wheeled, egotistical idiots will try to buy NASCAR and foul it up, too.
long live Panoz.

[Muzza]

Originally Posted by climb

Asset evaluation is based on one principle: the ability of the asset to produce revenue; then the sum of the current and the discounted future revenues gives you the value of the asset.
This is called n.a.v. (net actual value).

[...]

Actually it is NPV - net present value.

[fomoco]

Originally Posted by indycool

fomoco, your post is better suited for CW.

In Miller's column, Nation confirmed there had been talks but did not comment on them.

Steady as it goes, sir.

Sorry to upset the apple cart(Yank Speak), but I have followed, Indy Car Cart Champ, Irl, for the past XX years.

Yes my fisrt few posts on this topic, but I stand by what I say. TG a poor mans version of Bernie E. Send tony packing and the states will have a unified racing programme for open wheelers.

If you are going to make staemants to the press, back it up with facts