[Official] Italian Grand Prix 2021: Grand Prix Weekend Thread

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by BTCC frog

I agree. I thought that was a racing incident for sure.

Absolutely. At the time I put that down to a racing incident and having watched it numerous times I still do. If the stewards feel blame needs to be apportioned, then it should be apportioned to who ever it was that thought it was a good idea install those sausage kerbs. That's what initially caused Verstappen's car to jump up from the track. 0.55 seconds in on the footage. Once that happened he no longer had control of the car.

https://youtu.be/_VSwwZYDW94

[canaglia]

a bit harsh but reasonable considering is verstappen the one who didn't lift off while he was over the kerb

[Beau2]

So Toto has described the incident as a 'tactical foul'.

Lets hope these next two weeks go very quickly and without George Russell having to replicate the incident in the simulator.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by canaglia

a bit harsh but reasonable considering is verstappen the one who didn't lift off while he was over the kerb

Once he was over the sausage kerb it was too late to lift off.

[gert]

Originally Posted by Beau2

Lets hope these next two weeks go very quickly and without George Russell having to replicate the incident in the simulator.

LOL

... more likely they 'd ask Vandoorde or de Vries to do that rather than Russell

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Once he was over the sausage kerb it was too late to lift off.

I think verstappen was punished because according to race steward decision, verstappen didn't manage to avoid the contact, it's a very big gray area... conceptually is not that different from what hamilton did during silverstone race. Main difference is that hamilton got 10s because was still in race, verstappen got 3 positions because sanction came after the race.
It's a bit harsh but however reasonable to me.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by gert

LOL

... more likely they 'd ask Vandoorde or de Vries to do that rather than Russell

russel has kinda of experience about crashing against a mercedes

[Richard C]

I don't agree with the decision or the reasoning. I think the flaw in the reasoning is that one is exiting pit and getting up to speed on cold tires and the other is coming at speed on warmed up tires. Yes, that will create a non-typical entry into the corner. I would have put it down to a racing incident.

IMHO, if feels a bit like "Someone must be punished".

Richard

[broadrun96]

Glad to see F1 is still a ever foolish as possible. Literally change the rules mid race to penalize Red Bull any chance they get. Red Bull management SUCKS and brings it on themselves but LH is driving like a petulant child and on the radio non-stop in the same manner MV is. Pointless to watch the rest of the season as it's a waste of a good challenge when the principal shows up to penalize something as if it's NASCAR and for the show.

Utterly ridiculous anything beyond racing incident and LH on the gas with the wheel hooked behind his wing and the radio telling him to shut it down is GARBAGE. That needs penalty points for safety, the other driver is in your vision out of the car and you're trying to move yours???

[Anyopenroad]

As soon as I heard Horner describe it as a racing incident I was sure Verstappen was getting the blame. Horner would have seen footage and telemetry by that point and understands the rules well enough to know how the stewards were likely to see it.

I can't decide what to make of Verstappen walking off without checking on Hamilton. Emotions of the moment etc - that would have been scary for him too. Same for Hamilton's odd attempt to reverse. Overall I'm going with neither of them thinking quite straight in those first moments after the crash.

[Beau2]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Utterly ridiculous anything beyond racing incident and LH on the gas with the wheel hooked behind his wing and the radio telling him to shut it down is GARBAGE. That needs penalty points for safety, the other driver is in your vision out of the car and you're trying to move yours???

Not only that but he was actually trying to move the car when Verstappen had his belts undone and was trying to balance and jump out. Hamilton was still trying to reverse when he could see Max walking behind his car. I have not seen anything like it before - it was completely boneheaded of Hamilton to try and carry on; especially after a bump on the head.

[Anyopenroad]

Originally Posted by Beau2

I have not seen anything like it before - it was completely boneheaded of Hamilton to try and carry on; especially after a bump on the head.

Perhaps, having had that "bump on the head" you refer to in passing, he wasn't thinking entirely straight?

[gert]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Glad to see F1 is still a ever foolish as possible. Literally change the rules mid race to penalize Red Bull any chance they get.

That's not exactly true.

If they were really out on a mission to punish Verstappen/Red Bull they were given a chance to do that on lap 1 ... and decided not to.

... And again when Verstappen cut the chicane and may or may not have gained some time there.

[Beau2]

Originally Posted by Anyopenroad

Perhaps, having had that "bump on the head" you refer to in passing, he wasn't thinking entirely straight?

Possibly. Although incidents like Nurburgring 07, Germany 19 and Imola 21 suggest that Hamilton will do anything to rescue the car. It is commendable on those occasions but I'm pretty sure he would have recieved a black flag for it today.

[Anyopenroad]

Sky have the footage on their YT for those who haven't seen it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaPKqGO59T0

A few thoughts:

- It's very scary. Pre-halo Hamilton would have been crushed.
- Verstappen is definitely pitched up by the kerb and his right rear then rolls up Hamiton's left rear.
- It all happens very very quickly.
- Hamilton could not have seen Verstappen getting out when he first tried to reverse
- Verstappen walks off onto the track. He glances once towards Hamilton.

They both behave oddly. I think they were both pretty shaken up.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Beau2

Not only that but he was actually trying to move the car when Verstappen had his belts undone and was trying to balance and jump out. Hamilton was still trying to reverse when he could see Max walking behind his car. I have not seen anything like it before - it was completely boneheaded of Hamilton to try and carry on; especially after a bump on the head.

In the middle of the track. That seemed pretty boneheaded to me, I must say.....

[Mogster]

Originally Posted by Anyopenroad

Sky have the footage on their YT for those who haven't seen it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaPKqGO59T0

A few thoughts:

- It's very scary. Pre-halo Hamilton would have been crushed.
- Verstappen is definitely pitched up by the kerb and his right rear then rolls up Hamiton's left rear.
- It all happens very very quickly.
- Hamilton could not have seen Verstappen getting out when he first tried to reverse
- Verstappen walks off onto the track. He glances once towards Hamilton.

They both behave oddly. I think they were both pretty shaken up.

Verstappen looked quite shook up when Sky showed him in the garage. It was a scary incident. Verstappen’s tyre appeared to contact Hamilton’s helmet. I was surprised he didn’t check Hamilton wasn’t injured even a cursory, are you OK.

[steve_r]

Verstappen tried to driven off whilst his rear wheels were next to Hamiltons head, judging by the fact that his rear wheels started to turn whilst the car was mid air. Which one is boneheaded again?

[Beau2]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

In the middle of the track. That seemed pretty boneheaded to me, I must say.....

Agree on this too. Although perhaps Hamilton's attempt to get out forwards first of all might have spooked him from going around the front. A quick divert to the barriers and out of the way would have sufficed.

[Aysedasi]

Inevitably, we're all picking it apart, because that's what we do. For me, it was always the likely end scenario for Max and Lewis. Max gave Lewis no room at all on lap 1 but then he (and Horner) expected Lewis to say 'after you Claude' to Max at turn 1 later. It wasn't going to happen and frankly, for Lewis, it really couldn't happen, as allowing Max to muscle through there would have been another psychological 'tick' for Max to chalk up. We want a great battle for the WDC from the two contenders and that's what we're getting. To expect it all to pass off with no tears at all on one side or the other (or both) is almost certainly asking too much. I suspect it won't be the last time this season that the pair of them will find themselves in difficulty because no quarter is given.

Anyhow, brilliant to see a McLaren 1-2 and congrats to Daniel on a terrific race. That'll do him a power of good.

[JHamilton]

I couldn't give a rats ass about Hamilton or Verstappen... McLaren back on top!!

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Mogster

Verstappen looked quite shook up when Sky showed him in the garage. It was a scary incident. Verstappen’s tyre appeared to contact Hamilton’s helmet. I was surprised he didn’t check Hamilton wasn’t injured even a cursory, are you OK.

[Beau2]

Originally Posted by steve_r

Verstappen tried to driven off whilst his rear wheels were next to Hamiltons head, judging by the fact that his rear wheels started to turn whilst the car was mid air. Which one is boneheaded again?

Let's be honest here, Max's rear wheels were nowhere near Hamilton's head when Max tried to drive off. They were resting behind Hamilton's front wheels but nowhere near his head. It was dull by both of them to try and continue.

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by Beau2

Let's be honest here, Max's rear wheels were nowhere near Hamilton's head when Max tried to drive off. They were resting behind Hamilton's front wheels but nowhere near his head. It was dull by both of them to try and continue.

I agree. But I was joining in the namecalling, which is seemingly what we do on here nowadays.

[bobec]

Originally Posted by Mogster

Verstappen looked quite shook up when Sky showed him in the garage. It was a scary incident. Verstappen’s tyre appeared to contact Hamilton’s helmet. I was surprised he didn’t check Hamilton wasn’t injured even a cursory, are you OK.

You can see him turn his head towards Hamilton. At that point Hamilton pumps the throttle trying to get back on the track, so Verstappen knows Hamilton is Ok. Also that it is best if he keeps moving.