[Team] Haas: Gene Haas of NASCAR attempting to start F1 team

[321Go]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

It doesn't mean it can't be done and it doesn't mean they have to win a race in their first season, the fact is it's refreshing and F1 needs that. You still want the same old.....just askin' ?

Yes, it doesn't mean it cannot be done. To win in your first year of competition in today's F1 environment would be an absolute miracle, but it would be fantastic to see. Would certainly be refreshing for F1. But as I said, I don't see a podium finish even after five years if you start from scratch in F1 today. Just look at Caterham F1. Four years after they entered, still at the back end of the field, even with the four time champion teams engineering in their cars in the last couple.

It all comes down to how much dollars Gene Haas is willing to spend on his F1 team. If he can afford to spend as much $$ as Dietrich Mateschitz has on the old Jaguar F1 team (who's first podium as RBR was in their second year with a 3rd for DC at Monaco '06), then anything is possible. But will Haas spend as much money on Haas F1 as Mateschitz has on RBR? Doubt it.

Originally Posted by wnut

Walter Wolf Racing Jody Scheckter Argentina 1977.

The question was for a team built from scratch. The Wolf team was technically formed in '76 in partnership with Frank Williams Racing (a year before Williams GPE was formed), and a buy out of the assets of the Hesketh Racing Team, using the Hesketh cars and equipment in '76.

In '77 Walter Wolf Racing was formed after Frank Williams was demoted as Manager and then left the team with Patrick Head to form Williams GPE. The '77 car was a Frank Williams Racing car, and was to be badged FW06, but later changed to WR1 after Frank's departure.

[wolfhound]

Haas certainly has a job on his hands to get the right people in place as they are more important and more difficult to get than the physical facilities.

I can think of one or two people who might be useful to him and are recently departed team principals.
From an enginnering point of view I think it is essential to have a decent no of F1 experienced staff.
I have been trying to think of are there any chassis builders in the USA who have recent knowledge of building open rule chassis cars of composite construction. I know there are race enginners in the states but you would still need some with relevant experience.

[Paradise City]

I've no particular hopes for Haas, if he's very, very lucky he'll match what Force India are doing.

The caveat for that, is if he snags some works manufacturer muscle that have had a history and knowledge in the sport. Haas, if you look at his wiki, though has had some serious legal problems in the past.

[Mekola]

I'm glad to see another team on the grid. Shame that it is Haas only, one team more should be accepted to have the classic 26-car grid again.

[PointDSM]

I understand that I am linking two astronomically unrelated items here, but Haas does have the ability to grab any of the former Level 5 LMP2 engineers to start. Sure none of them are qualified for top positions, however mid-lower positions would work. It's a convenient start...

[Tucky]

Originally Posted by Mekola

I'm glad to see another team on the grid. Shame that it is Haas only, one team more should be accepted to have the classic 26-car grid again.

They're looking at another entry called Forza Rossa. Never heard of them myself

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by FstrthnU

I could have sworn that another company called Marussia, unrelated to the car company, already bought the team.

Yes, "Marussia Communications"

[321Go]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

I've no particular hopes for Haas, if he's very, very lucky he'll match what Force India are doing.

If Haas Formula LLC is to match what Force India are doing, then they need to do exactly what Force India are doing. And that is - Force India are a Indian owned and registered team, with an Indian Chairman and MD, their car livery is based on the colours of the Indian national flag, but the team is based at Silverstone, UK. Even though Force India is based in the UK, many if not all F1 fans see Force India as a Indian team, and not a UK team. I do.

Haas' plan to base his team in North Carolina is, as Johnny Herbert said, "logistically a total nightmare". It's hard enough starting a team from scratch, but to based miles away - and in a different time zone from what is F1's silicon valley is a big mistake in my opinion. If Haas Formula LLC is to succeed as many hope they will, they have to be UK based. There's a list of F1 teams that have failed because they were based outside of the UK. The only successful team to be based outside of the UK are Scuderia Ferrari, based in Maranello, Italy. But we are not talking an apple and an apple here are we?

Yes, North Carolina is USA's motorsport hub, where many NASCAR, Indy and other US racing series teams are based. But they don't have much - if any F1 knowledge, infrastructure, supply, sub-contract, etc. etc. The difference could well be between an attempt at an F1 team, and an attempt at a successful F1 team for the long term.

Originally Posted by Paradise City

The caveat for that, is if he snags some works manufacturer muscle that have had a history and knowledge in the sport.

There is some chatter about some form of a manufacturer backed effort for Haas Formula LLC. With an old favourite coming back to F1. I guess we might find out during the press conference Haas is holding on Monday. I don't think Haas has signed an engine supply contract yet. Although the Ferrari V6 has been in the press since the rumours started.

[Dyson Mazda]

Maybe a Chrysler badged Ferrari?

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by 321Go

If Haas Formula LLC is to match what Force India are doing, then they need to do exactly what Force India are doing. And that is - Force India are a Indian owned and registered team, with an Indian Chairman and MD, their car livery is based on the colours of the Indian national flag, but the team is based at Silverstone, UK. Even though Force India is based in the UK, many if not all F1 fans see Force India as a Indian team, and not a UK team. I do.

Haas' plan to base his team in North Carolina is, as Johnny Herbert said, "logistically a total nightmare". It's hard enough starting a team from scratch, but to based miles away - and in a different time zone from what is F1's silicon valley is a big mistake in my opinion. If Haas Formula LLC is to succeed as many hope they will, they have to be UK based. There's a list of F1 teams that have failed because they were based outside of the UK. The only successful team to be based outside of the UK are Scuderia Ferrari, based in Maranello, Italy. But we are not talking an apple and an apple here are we?

Yes, North Carolina is USA's motorsport hub, where many NASCAR, Indy and other US racing series teams are based. But they don't have much - if any F1 knowledge, infrastructure, supply, sub-contract, etc. etc. The difference could well be between an attempt at an F1 team, and an attempt at a successful F1 team for the long term.



There is some chatter about some form of a manufacturer backed effort for Haas Formula LLC. With an old favourite coming back to F1. I guess we might find out during the press conference Haas is holding on Monday. I don't think Haas has signed an engine supply contract yet. Although the Ferrari V6 has been in the press since the rumours started.

The reason why I will support this effort is because he wants to base the team in the US. If they base the team in the UK, what's the point? That wouldn't be an American team but another British one. From a marketing standpoint, he needs it to be here too.

There are plenty of engineering resources, he's got a windtunnel (which I maintain he can use), a 7 post rig, and I bet we can find an autoclave on Craigslist. Boogity.

[321Go]

Originally Posted by Tucky

They're looking at another entry called Forza Rossa. Never heard of them myself

Probably because Forza Rossa is Romania's official Ferrari dealer.

But you might have heard of Colin Kolles though, who is behind this entry with backing from the Romanian government, and has previously worked for Midland/Spyker and Hispania/HRT. Need I say more?

Forza Rossa, if accepted, along with Haas - face a steep timeframe to put cars on the grid for 2015 with just nine months to go before pre-season testing begins for 2015.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

The reason why I will support this effort is because he wants to base the team in the US. If they base the team in the UK, what's the point? That wouldn't be an American team but another British one. From a marketing standpoint, he needs it to be here too.

There are plenty of engineering resources, he's got a windtunnel (which I maintain he can use), a 7 post rig, and I bet we can find an autoclave on Craigslist. Boogity.

I agree 100% but I also think it is crazy, but maybe good crazy.

If someone asked me what the logical way is, it is clearly to base it near the other teams in England. However, as an American, and a fan, if I had money to throw at this project I would do the same as Haas even if it doesn't make much sense.

The chance of success regardless is slim either way, but I would rather take a shot at trying to being Dan Gurney than Force India.

Richard

[321Go]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

There are plenty of engineering resources, he's got a windtunnel (which I maintain he can use), a 7 post rig, and I bet we can find an autoclave on Craigslist. Boogity.

Oh, sorry - didn't realise Haas has a wind tunnel AND a seven post rig. Should be plenty enough for a successful F1 team then. Boogity on indeed.

I sincerely hope Haas Formula LLC is more successful at an F1 entry than the last two attempts at a USA Formula 1 team. The failed US F1 Team in 2010 - which was a prank, and Team Haas USA in 1985 - only to close it's doors in 1986.

Originally Posted by JHamilton

The reason why I will support this effort is because he wants to base the team in the US. If they base the team in the UK, what's the point? That wouldn't be an American team but another British one. From a marketing standpoint, he needs it to be here too.

As for your view of a marketing standpoint, there's an Australian designed and built car on US roads, and is also racing in NASCAR. Has this effected the car sales? Or support base of the Chevrolet / NASCAR fans? I think not. The fact is there's not many American's that are aware, or if they are - care much that the Australian built Holden Commodore is badged as the Chevrolet SS. As far as they're concerned, the Chevrolet badge makes it American. It's all in the marketing.

I think US fans would rather support a US F1 team that is fighting mid field after two years, and fighting for podiums after five years - than support an US team that is still at the back end of the grid after five years in the sport.

In my opinion, and it's only my opinion, this task would be much easier if Haas F1 bought out a current F1 team that has the infrastructure, experience, supply chain and is based in the Oxfordshire area of England. With a American title sponsor and marketing as the US F1 team (not hard when it really is), not many would give a hoot about where the car is build. Specially if the team is doing well in races.

[wolfhound]

I have no doubt that Haas can create the necessary factory infrastructure in N.C.
However the problem that I see is recruiting the knowledge base because I do not see much in North American motorsports that is relevant to F1.
I do hope that Haas succeeds in F1 even as a decent midfield team in a few years time. I suspect that regardless of having an American base that will still nedd facilities in Europe most likely the UK.

[Hawkwood]

Originally Posted by 321Go

When was the last time a new F1 team came in from 100% scratch and won a race in the modern era of F1?
Or even finished on the podium?

Stewart GP.
Formed from scratch in 1997, won a race in 1999.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by 321Go

Oh, sorry - didn't realise Haas has a wind tunnel AND a seven post rig. Should be plenty enough for a successful F1 team then. Boogity on indeed.

I sincerely hope Haas Formula LLC is more successful at an F1 entry than the last two attempts at a USA Formula 1 team. The failed US F1 Team in 2010 - which was a prank, and Team Haas USA in 1985 - only to close it's doors in 1986.

If anyone has the resources to build an F1 team in the US it is Gene Haas. If he can't do it, I will eat crow and say it cannot be done.

Originally Posted by 321Go

As for your view of a marketing standpoint, there's an Australian designed and built car on US roads, and is also racing in NASCAR. Has this effected the car sales? Or support base of the Chevrolet / NASCAR fans? I think not. The fact is there's not many American's that are aware, or if they are - care much that the Australian built Holden Commodore is badged as the Chevrolet SS. As far as they're concerned, the Chevrolet badge makes it American. It's all in the marketing.

I think US fans would rather support a US F1 team that is fighting mid field after two years, and fighting for podiums after five years - than support an US team that is still at the back end of the grid after five years in the sport.

In my opinion, and it's only my opinion, this task would be much easier if Haas F1 bought out a current F1 team that has the infrastructure, experience, supply chain and is based in the Oxfordshire area of England. With a American title sponsor and marketing as the US F1 team (not hard when it really is), not many would give a hoot about where the car is build. Specially if the team is doing well in races.

You are obviously entitled to your own opinion but I think you underestimate the US F1 fans. I could be wrong, but I think having the team located here is very important to Haas' business and what his company produces. Would it be easier to set up in England? Sure, but I want to see Americans compete directly with the best motorsport engineering in the world.

As far as the Aussie built products are concerned, the enthusiast of those cars are very aware of where they are produced and their history. As a matter of fact, there is a rebadged Monaro in my garage sitting under a Holden flag. I don't know if that has hurt sales, but those cars (GTO, G8, SS) certainly don't set the world on fire. I say this because I am the American Formula One fan and they know more than you think.

[aneesh99]

I don't really see how they will be able to base a team in the US, USF1 tried it, fell flat on their face (for a whole host of reasons but it didn't help). Need I also mention that Carl Haas and Penske based themselves in the UK?

No suppliers are based in the States, no F1 facilities etc etc. Most if not all of the F1 engineering talent is based in Europe. Logistics will be a nightmare. Also, I'm not sure Windshear is FIA compliant. There are no shortage of facilities available in the UK, Lola's old place in Huntingdon has a FIA approved tunnel with a 7 post rig.

If this is a long term commitment and effort then I'm sure they can build and based themselves in the US, but they'd be much better off short term in Europe. It won't be easy to justify basing yourself in the US to potential backers, especially after the USF1 debacle. Then again, this is Gene Haas we're talking about. My opinion of course, I'm not really any F1 guys so feel free to correct me on everything!

[Richard C]

Personally, I think ANYONE is nuts to try to start up an F1 Team these days regardless of location (Lack of cost caps is why I personally think its crazy). Being successful in F1 (or any endeavor) has many factors. Not basing the team in England is a large one, but frankly, if the team doesn't do well, I suspect that will not be the primary reason. USF1 is mentioned above as an example. I personally think the team failed for reasons beyond its location in the US.

I am not pretending that the talent pool will be 100% organically grown from the US motorsports industry. There will clearly be a percentage of talent pulled from the existing F1 community (and other top euro-centric series). Also, I am absolutely not a fan of NASCAR, but I think many here are discounting too much the pool of talent in the area that Haas plans to base the team.

There is going to be a massive learning curve. They will drive around at the back of the grid for at least a season or two. My main concern is what will happen at the end of the first season or two in which whoever is footing the bill sees that this really is likely to be a 5-10 year long project to have any significant success.

Richard

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by 321Go

If Haas Formula LLC is to match what Force India are doing, then they need to do exactly what Force India are doing. And that is - Force India are a Indian owned and registered team, with an Indian Chairman and MD, their car livery is based on the colours of the Indian national flag, but the team is based at Silverstone, UK. Even though Force India is based in the UK, many if not all F1 fans see Force India as a Indian team, and not a UK team. I do.

I don't see Force India as an Indian F1 team per se but a previous F1 team, that was bought up along with the existing infrastructure and is now primarily Indian financed, because Vijay Mallya wanted to go F1 racing. Force India have an Indian flag based livery and is part sponsored by companies owned by Vijay Mallya, however he couldn't do it entirely on his and formed a consortium with the former Spyker Cars CEO and Dutch entrepreneur Michiel Mol who is a director and co-owner of Force India. Since 2011, Indian company Sahara India Pariwar, bought 42.5% of Force India's shares.

[FstrthnU]

http://msn.foxsports.com/speed/formu...for-haas-team/
Haas working on engine deal.

Denies Cosworth Rumors.

Initial discussions with Mercedes and Ferrari, no decisions yet.

He says that apart from those 2 Renault is the only other option (Honda too busy with Mclaren)

[Mekola]

I'm still optimistic with Gene Haas' entry in F1.

[321Go]

Originally Posted by Hawkwood

Stewart GP.
Formed from scratch in 1997, won a race in 1999.

Ah... yep, you're correct. Even though the background for the team was Paul Stewart Racing - based at Milton Keynes (now RBR HQ), who had great success in F3, Euro F3000 and a couple of other open wheel categories I believe, the F1 team was essentially built from scratch. And if I'm correct, scored a podium in their first year as well (?).

So there you go, it can be done. Must be something in the water at the Milton Keynes facility.

[321Go]

Just askin'... if Hass F1 is to be US based because Gene Haas is on the 'all American' wagon, does he plan on having an all American staff, drivers, sponsors, etc. etc.?

If so, he might as well give up before he even starts.

[Hawkwood]

Originally Posted by 321Go

Ah... yep, you're correct. Even though the background for the team was Paul Stewart Racing - based at Milton Keynes (now RBR HQ), who had great success in F3, Euro F3000 and a couple of other open wheel categories I believe, the F1 team was essentially built from scratch. And if I'm correct, scored a podium in their first year as well (?).

So there you go, it can be done. Must be something in the water at the Milton Keynes facility.

Yes indeed they did, I'd completely forgotten about that. They got 2nd at Monaco, only their 5th race in F1.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by 321Go

Just askin'... if Hass F1 is to be US based because Gene Haas is on the 'all American' wagon, does he plan on having an all American staff, drivers, sponsors, etc. etc.?

If so, he might as well give up before he even starts.

As I mentioned above, I strongly doubt there is any plans to be 100% American, and will recruit existing F1/WEC/etc. talent. I would hazard a guess that many US based teams for various US pro level series already have somewhat of an international flavor and I expect this will be no different.

Richard