Ferrari dismiss Stepney/McLaren suspend Coughlan

[Peter Mallett]

Nope,

That doesn't work for me either. Agreed there may be some "spin" but you have to ask "who would benefit?" and we don't want to go there so for my part and I'm sure most motorsports fans, the spin is of no interest. The outcome of the enquiries (legal and sporting) will give us the only answers we need.

In the meantime let's race.

[deeks6]

SHOCK #1 ... Cheating / Conspiracy / Espionage / Shanannigans in F1

SHOCK #2 ... nobody has mentioned Michael Schumacher!

[climb]

Really a bad time for Ron dennis:
he is going to either appear as:

- a horrible rulebreaker, entrusting an employee an espionage mission

or:

- an honest-but-incapable leader, under which employees make personal espionage campaigns without his permission/knowledge: in any case a strong managing responsibility

[Peter Mallett]

Not really. The whole Ron Dennis position is based upon reasonable doubt. I've no doubt his employee's contract includes a confidentiality and a professional liability clause. Having signed that a manager should not be expected to doubt his employee's integrity.

I know under various legal codes the "blame culture" exists but in English law it doesn't (as far as I recall). If the employee has acted illegally then its the employee's problem. Only if the Employer has knowingly gained a benefit from its employee's actions would the employer be liable.

[brands]

Originally Posted by Gt_R

Maybe "ruined image" sounds exaggerating, but unfortunately, some portion of people are trying to discredit Mclaren's successes due to this turn of event.

You can find "some people" who follow F1 that will discredit every title won for the past 10+ years.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

If the employee has acted illegally then its the employee's problem.

There may not be a "blame culture",but we have more than our fair share of 'scapegoats'.

Stepney claims a "dirty tricks" campaign.Not unknown in Italian history/culture.

[Peter Mallett]

Martyn,

That was my point the cultural differences raise perceptions that others may not see. Its why you can't apply those cultural positions globally.

At the moment the only thing Ron can be accused of is being a good Company Chief.

[foreversideways]

A couple of things just struck me, whice appear odd. Who in this day and age passes information around on pieces of paper, lots of them in this case. Hi tech companies such as Ferrari and Mclaren would mantain their data on some sort of archival system, passing data within the company via their secure network or on portable hard drives or memory sticks. Are we being expected to believe that Stepney spent an evening printing off this information or burning the midnight oil on the photocopier. I dont think so, if he wanted to steal any information he could simply plug a memory stick into his office computer and copy the file/files.He was a senior member of the management so would probably have had the highest level of permissions available on the Ferarri network. Secondly, if you (the Mclaren employee) were in possesson of such confidential information, would you be keeping it somewhere that it might be easily found. Again, i don't think so. You would at least be holding it in a hidden file on a laptop in a secure location.
Curious.

[Kempi]

Digital information can be fingerprinted much more easily than analogue copies.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

At the moment the only thing Ron can be accused of is being a good Company Chief.

I'm sure that's the case as far as RD is concerned.But he wouldn't be the first 'sincere' man to spend a little time in one of her majesty's 'holiday camps' for dodgy behaviour.

However,how far up the ladder does this thing have to go before someone points an accusing finger?

We can only hope that this is just a case of two men trying to gain from something that is not their property.It seems a little bit more complicated than that for that to be the case I fear.

[Armco Bender]

Spy vs Spy .....

[deeks6]

Scene 1 - A small cafe "somewhere" in Italy

Mike: G'day there Nige, hows it all going?

Nige: Good Mike - hey I'm a bit short on the house payments and you chaps seem to be struggling to keep up with us. You reckon Ronny would be interested in some go-faster data?

Mike: Well, I don't have the authority to talk for Ron but, hey, run us a copy and we'll give it a squizz, eh.

SCENE 2 - A small office "somewhere" in Woking:

Mike: Hey Ron, just happened to come across this little 900 page booklet called "How to win at F1" by Jean Todt and it looks like it's got some really good hints for making our cars faster. Do you want to have a look at it?

Ron: Look Mike, I am an honourable man and this is an honourable company. We do not rig races, put dodgy front wings on, favour drivers, bend the rules, drop litter or smoke cigarettes. If that document is in any way dodgy then I don't want to know anything about it. Is that CLEARLY understood?

Mike: Well yes Ron. I'll get rid of it right away.

Ron: Thats not what I said. I said I don't want to know anything about it ... is that CLEARLY understood?

Mike: OK, but there is the problem of somebody's mortgage in Fiorano.

Ron: Petty Cash is an accounting problem ... as long as the paperwork is in order.

SCENE 3 - Round 4 FIA Formula 1:

Ron: Well done chaps, we seem to be quicker than Ferrari all of a sudden. Pip pip and all that.

Lewis: Yes, Mike has been putting in a lot of overtime ... you should give him a raise.

Come on people ... where there's smoke in F1 there is probably an inferno.

Take your pick - either Ron Dennis A) party to this or B) the stupidest man in history

He does not strike me as someone who does not know everything that goes on in his company.

[Marbot]

Stepney is "surprised". Bernie says that neither Alonso or Hamilton will lose points!?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60515

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by deeks6

He does not strike me as someone who does not know everything that goes on in his company.

I think it was 'Flav' who was recently quoted as saying that Ron Dennis is a man that knows everything about everything.Obviously this little incident got by him somehow.

Nice post by the way.

Just in.http://www.crash.net/news_view~cid~1~id~150705.htm Others may be involved!

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by deeks6

Scene 1 - A small cafe "somewhere" in Italy

http://www.f1technical.net/news/6328

It's not in Italy,but it does add to the intrigue.

[JohnSSC]

When you have the capability to track employee productivity by tracking the keystrokes on one's keyboard, taking info via a memory stick will leave fingerprints for sure, as kempi noted above.

A couple of comments bearing in mind the concept that people are innocent until proven guilty.

Point 1: It has been posited that Ferrari are "getting even" with Stepney. By concocting a story about espionage? By asking for a criminal enquiry? By taking that enquiry to a 2nd country? Seems like a heck of a lot of trouble to go to when you could likely torture someone legally via the terms of the employment contract as Peter alluded to above. Why would Ferrari want to cause this much internal disruption? It makes no sense to stir things up this much simply to "get even." The one thing everyone agrees on with Ferrari is that they stand together no matter what. Doing something that is divisive and that could poison the well is contra to their style/philosophy.

Point 2: IF Stepney passed documents to the head designer at Mc, than the detail would certainly have made it's way into the program for McLaren's effort. As I have said before it is not the gain of new gizmos that would be of great benefit but the fact that you do not have to spend time chasing solutions down blind alleys that is the benefit. It is always nice to have that extra data that you might otherwise never have seen before making a decison.

Point 3: The value to getting this info for the receiving employee is this: if you are able to use data that allows you to come up with a successful solution to a problem faster and less expensively than your internal rivals, would this not enhance your position within the organization? The more your personal value increases the more likely that an internal reward will occur and if not, a move to a new position at a higher rate of pay due to your enhanced reputation.

Like I said, I thought the season was interesting before...

[Red]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Point 3: [...] at a higher rate of pay due to your enhanced reputation.

I've been thinking of it too but doesn't add up.. Those information do not really come cheap, do they. Would Stepney (and/or supposedly 2 others) risk their own positions for beer change? Would Mike's potential raise cover the expenses and leave room for a decent profit worth the risks?

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by deeks6

Come on people ... where there's smoke in F1 there is probably an inferno.

Take your pick - either Ron Dennis A) party to this or B) the stupidest man in history

He does not strike me as someone who does not know everything that goes on in his company.

So you are saying that Ron Dennis is involved in this and is extremely dishonest and is involved in illegal activities to steal property from another team.

[mjstallard]

The BBC are reporting of rumours (tenuous, I know, but hey...it's fun to speculate!) that there is another team involved in this whole debacle:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/6276570.stm

Toyboata, maybe?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Red

I've been thinking of it too but doesn't add up.. Those information do not really come cheap, do they. Would Stepney (and/or supposedly 2 others) risk their own positions for beer change? Would Mike's potential raise cover the expenses and leave room for a decent profit worth the risks?

I think that it was done for someone else and not for themselves,they know what happened at Toyota,they know it's not worth the risk.Interesting that Ron only mentions Mclaren in his statements,no mention of Mercedes.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by martyn bott

Stepney is "surprised". Bernie says that neither Alonso or Hamilton will lose points!?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60515

That is such a disengenuious post you must work for the Sun.

Stepney is surprised by the legal action against him.

Bernie says there'll be no points lost as a result of any espionage.

[Marbot]

Notice that the word 'Mercedes' is missing from this statement.

"I am absolutely confident that with the passing of time, and it is a little difficult to put any timing on it, you will see and the world will understand that McLaren's position is one that is reflective of our statements," he explained.

I could be nit-picking,but you never know.It's not like Ron to miss out on an opportunity to mention his partners.

[climb]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Not really. The whole Ron Dennis position is based upon reasonable doubt. I've no doubt his employee's contract includes a confidentiality and a professional liability clause. Having signed that a manager should not be expected to doubt his employee's integrity.


I know under various legal codes the "blame culture" exists but in English law it doesn't (as far as I recall). If the employee has acted illegally then its the employee's problem. Only if the Employer has knowingly gained a benefit from its employee's actions would the employer be liable.

This approach, Peter , may save the boss from a legal liability, but from a managerial point of view, if something strongly contrary to the company's principles is done, and the boss turns out to be completely unaware of that, this same boss doesn't seem to have enough control of the company he's encharged to manage.

Every boss' wage is way higher than employees' because not only has he to do his strictly meant job, but also they have to control their staff's behaviour

Didn't Mclaren get any advantage from Coughlan's supposed espionage?
Then, whom did he ultimately aimed to favourish? maybe a third part?
Even worse for Ron to be unaware of that, once again from a managerial point of view.

[Peter Mallett]

From a managerial point of view the employee has been suspended upon the discovery of the alleged wrongdoing. Thus any action reasonably required of the manager must have been taken.

I'm sure that in a micro management culture the manager would be suspended likewise but we tend to employ people who are expected to behave professionally otherwise you don't employ them.

Furthermore the employee in question is enmployed to improve the cars thus if there is any improvment from ideas proposed by said employee the manager would have to assume he's doing his job. Are you suggesting Ron buys the dog then barks himself?

Countries where patronage/nepotism etc. occur necessarily operate on a different basis thus the sponsor is as much to blame as the transgressor.

Sorry can't buy into the Ron's to blame thing at all. But I will change my opinion if there is proven culpability.

[davyboy]

Ron Dennis' integrity is probably the tightest in the pitlane and there's no way he would get involved in something like this. Aside from his personal position on it, he and McLaren would have so little to gain and so much to loose.

That said, McLaren's a big organization and Ron's not hands-on with the detail. Its conceivable that what Mike Coughlan received could have been incorporated into their cars, the 2007 plans or their future strategy without anyone knowing.

...OR Coughlan and Stepney were planning to leave their respective teams and together move to a third party, taking the information with them.

Although everyone's innocent until proven guilty, there's no smoke without fire, and I think its fair to say there's a lot of smoke about the place right now.