GT3: ACO style

[Simmi]

If you're the ACO I get you want to reward existing participants, but surely you also want to get new manufacturers through the door. It helps increase the activation across the series and ultimately there's more PR value in having Porsche + Mercedes vs just Porsches.

So with that said I think it will be a mixture and some people will be left disappointed. What's also interesting is that in theory, if hypercar continues to grow as projected, the pool of GT3s will actually diminish. So teams don't have that multi-year certainty, and certainly no opportunity to expand. To that end I think the ACO will eventually be forced to try and get the WEC grid up to 40.

[Koenigsegg]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Thought Audi had announced they were stopping the R8 support and drivers recently.

Has the Nissan been updated in a while? Think I read somewhere that it is the oldest streetcar without an update in production and doesn't seem like the GT-R is really big in GT racing.

There hasn't been any formal news or announcement from Audi themselves. Hence why I said 'most likely stopping' instead of 'will stop'.

Regarding Nissan, their latest GT3 model is from 2018 and is homologated through 2028. It's still actively being raced by multiple teams in Japan and won the most recent GT300 race and also won the GT300 championship last year. It doesn't matter much if it's been updated or not because of BoP. I mean, at the Silverstone 500 of last weekend a Mercedes-AMG GT3 (non-Evo) started from pole. That model is from 2016 even.

[broadrun96]

Updates would be more to make it as driver friendly as the newer cars since it is an Am class. Most of what we hear about is how easy and comfortable cars are for the paying drivers to run quick.

[Simmi]

Okay here's my list:

Porsche - A GT titan. Helped prop up GTE in recent years. Just inconceivable they wouldn't be there, even if the new car needs some work.

Ferrari - Ditto the Prancing Horse. Brand new machinery introduced this year. Was genuinely wow'd when I saw this get unveiled at Spa last year. Has to be there.

Ford - From a commercial standpoint how can you turn this down? From a latest and greatest perspective this new GT3 will be talked about a lot. You need that in your championship. Ford are a genuine value add to the WEC and Le Mans.

Mercedes - As are Mercedes. One of, if not the strongest GT3 manufacturer right now in terms of car counts and customer support. To have the first Merc entries at Le Mans since 1999 is again too big of an opportunity to pass up.

BMW - Another major GT3 outfit with relatively new machinery. WRT makes sense to run the cars. In this competitive arena you need aces up your sleeve and BMWRT have perhaps the best one - Valentino Rossi. If there's even a sniff that he does WEC they'll get an entry.

Corvette - I think a combination of brand new shiny car and their history/pedigree helps GM here. American muscle is marketable. I do wonder if they'd be full works look/feel like this year or if they would find an established customer team?

Lamborghini - Hypercar team obviously and their tie-up with IronLynx/Prema is super interesting. The drivers they have access to in theory. Should be super silvers galore. And they also have a major ace up their sleeves in the Iron Dames. Any two-car team which includes them will be guaranteed an entry. As an aside - teams should be actively trying to poach Sarah Bovy. I've no idea what her deal is currently, whether she brings cash, but you can make a massive argument she and other top bronze drivers (Al Harthy, Keating if he'd stay...)should be getting paid to be there given they are the difference makers in this class. But that's a whole separate debate as it's hard to be a "bronze works" driver without that rating going up...

Finally this is where it gets tricky. Aston have a big shout for GT loyalty (albeit with a severely ageing car - and I've still not forgiven them for Valkyrie). But the Vantage is still very competitive when BoP'd right. McLaren have an Evo pack on the 720S out this year. They're a prestigious brand but have d*cked around so much, literally entering every series but sportscar prototypes. So who knows. Audi GT3 seems like a slowly dying star and the road car is being discontinued after this year. Do they still even make NSX's and GTR's anymore? To me Honda and Nissan aren't credible in the European GT3 marketplace with their current offerings. On a fully works level I doubt they're even interested. Honda look content to bypass a great chance to win Le Mans overall in the next two years. I've no idea what Lexus' timelines are on the new car but I'd pick them over most of the above options.

Gun to my head I'd say Aston for 8th team and then they're maybe first on the chopping block if the Hypercar grid expands in '25.

[Coach Ep]

Isn't there also a manufacturer's participation contribution (my words) to the ACO that will come into play?

[kdr]

Simmi great summary.

[Coach Ep]

Here's a not-entirely-left-field entry!

The production version of the car revealed (...), is set to be raced exclusively under the Lexus brand worldwide

Senior sources have also suggested that the forthcoming LMGT3 class in the FIA World Endurance Championship is also a major target for the new car.

https://www.dailysportscar.com/2023/...xY40XZPG1mk0nM

Edit: this will put Aston Martin on the bubble I reckon.

[broadrun96]

Was waiting to see if that went anywhere, much better GT look than the current car

[Coach Ep]

Agreed. Always wondered why Lexus didn't use one of their coupes instead of that tank-like sedan.

Does the Stellantis group (Peugeot holding company) have any GT3 (suitable) cars in their portfolio right now?

[Koenigsegg]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Agreed. Always wondered why Lexus didn't use one of their coupes instead of that tank-like sedan.

Does the Stellantis group (Peugeot holding company) have any GT3 (suitable) cars in their portfolio right now?

They don’t. The most recent GT3’s that fall under the Stellantis group now are the Viper GT3 and Maserati GT3.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Agreed. Always wondered why Lexus didn't use one of their coupes instead of that tank-like sedan.

Does the Stellantis group (Peugeot holding company) have any GT3 (suitable) cars in their portfolio right now?

Only suitable car from Stellantis is the Maserati MC20.

[hondafan37]

Likewise, the brands that cannot be in the WEC will be in ELMS, and with 21 or 22 GTs in Le Mans there will be space for all of them in the 24 hours.

[KlBD]

Originally Posted by Simmi

There's some really interesting kinda political moves here around GT3. You can look at it both ways. Have a stance of "commit to hypercar and you'll get GT3 too". Or throw them the GT3 bone in the hope it leads to a full commitment.

That said, I know there's the JAS link, but I'm getting semi-works at best vibes from that entry.

Considering how Honda seems to do business with its sportscar racing entries in terms of regional entrants being pretty silo'd off from each other, we may as well consider JAS to be the factory outfit for Honda's GT3 and TCR efforts. I mean, wasn't it them who were running the NSX in GTWC pre-covid?

[broadrun96]

They are the other arm of the NSX program and think they handled spares and delivery of cars in Europe when the program was announced

[KlBD]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

They are the other arm of the NSX program and think they handled spares and delivery of cars in Europe when the program was announced

Yes, I think you are correct on that front, and HPD does the service for Acuras operating on this side of the pond, though I think JAS still assembles all the cars before they go to customers.

[hondafan37]

If DSC’s reckoning is correct, for 2024, BMW, Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche are effectively nailed in. Corvette can effectively be added to that list too.

Much else depends on the final tally of full-season Hypercars, which will take precedence. If it is 20 then just four more two-car teams would be accepted (if the touted two-car team format is retained).

Those four would most likely be drawn from Aston Martin, Ford, Honda, McLaren and Mercedes-AMG.

Finally, it must be noted, that any decisions will only get tougher if the WEC reaches 21 or 22 Hypercars for 2024…

https://www.dailysportscar.com/2023/...look-like.html

[Simmi]

Past a certain point I wonder what is more valuable to the ACO?

For arguments sake - a 2 car Vanwall team or a 2 car Mercedes GT3 squad...

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Past a certain point I wonder what is more valuable to the ACO?

For arguments sake - a 2 car Vanwall team or a 2 car Mercedes GT3 squad...

I don't think that's a tough choice for the ACO at any time. The more interesting proposition would be rejecting a privateer LMH/LMDh in favour of a new GT3 manufacturer.

[Aysedasi]

I think we're beginning to have this discussion in two threads..... The Vanwall/Mercedes comparison is probably as stark as you could choose Rich. 2 car Vanwall or two more Porkers, that would be a different one for me....

[merak1974]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Only suitable car from Stellantis is the Maserati MC20.

Which will soon debut as a GT2 racer. However, Maserati has not announced any plans so far for a GT3 version of the MC20.

[TF110]

So I think it'll go something like this... hypercar manufacturers have furst dibs on GT3 teams. So I think next year it'll be the obvious 2x Ferrari, 2x Porsche, 2x BMW. Possibly 2x Lamborghini, 1x (or 2?) Corvette. The others I think get a nod are Aston Martin for its brand loyalty.

[chunterer]

Surely it would be better for ACO, WEC and the race itself not to do that?
Give priority to the main makes not involved in LMH/DH to do the GT3 class. Mwrc, Aston, Audi, Lexus,etc
The more variety, the better.

[S griffin]

I don't think ACO and the WEC care too much. They are more focused on LMH/DH, but the idea of having different makes in each class does make sense. Although some might not be interested. Merc for example might be more interested in making a LMH and the likes of Aston and Audi have other projects to consider. It depends how much they can put in. However as long as there is enough variety in each class, it shouldn't matter too much

[Matador]

2 Cars per manufactures does at least guarantee multiple makes on the podium though.

[Coach Ep]

And we'll almost double the number of manufacturers compared to this year!