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View Poll Results: What should be changed for diesel cars in the LMP1 technical regulation? | |||
Smaller restrictor and/or lower turbo boost | 31 | 36.05% | |
Smaller fuel tank (e.g. 80 vs 90 liter) | 27 | 31.40% | |
Higher minimum weight (e.g. 925 vs 950 kg) | 10 | 11.63% | |
Small fuel flow restrictor (e.g. 33 mm like petrol instead of 38 mm) | 24 | 27.91% | |
Other | 13 | 15.12% | |
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll |
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19 Mar 2007, 13:08 (Ref:1871352) | #126 | |
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Qulaifying this year may show just how quick the diesels at LM can go after all i think it is a safe bet that Peugeot will be gunning for the front row!!! I doubt it matters too much if they cross the 'non' line either - if they both pull3:30 laps and all the petrol cars struggle along at 3:35 then the ACO will slow them down.
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19 Mar 2007, 14:56 (Ref:1871443) | #127 | |||
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Quote:
Last edited by Spyderman; 19 Mar 2007 at 15:00. |
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19 Mar 2007, 16:04 (Ref:1871498) | #128 | |
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This is facts, not optimism. ACO has stated that LMP1 should be faster than 3:30 and that LMP2 should be 1.5% slower. They stear the rules using this criteria.
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19 Mar 2007, 16:55 (Ref:1871529) | #129 | |||
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Quote:
And of course you think this is a good thing? |
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19 Mar 2007, 17:00 (Ref:1871535) | #130 | |||
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You just don't get it do you? I was'nt seriuosly suggesting that gasoline turbos move to 5.5L (go back to my post and you will find that I said that the reduction of diesls to 4L was exactly what we needed). Anyway, you calculations are only valid using the current indexes. |
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19 Mar 2007, 19:36 (Ref:1871677) | #131 | |||
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20 Mar 2007, 02:39 (Ref:1871961) | #132 | ||
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Quote:
3.0 TDI=240 hp, 3.1 FSI=255-265 hp. But Audi quotes the 3.0 TDI A5 .2 seconds quicker to 100 km/h (62 mph) than the 3.1 FSI gasoline engine. 4.2 TDI=326 hp, 4.2 FSI=350 hp. But again Audi quotes the TDI version of the A8 a tenth or so quicker to 100. 6.0 W12 Gasoline=older non FSI engie=450 hp. [550 hp with turbo] compared to the 6.0 V12 TDI with 500 hp (the newest TDI) So as you can see turbo diesels have about the same power per displacement as naturally aspirated engines of same displacement. This is exactly what we see in P1 with 5.5 diesels and 5.5 Judds. The rest is up to the factory/privateer debate. The fact is that there is no factory gasoline P1 out there. The Fernandez Lola ran a 1:49.536 as its fastest lap, the Horag Lista could only manage a 1:54.149. Same chassis, one with a privateer engine and the other with a factory engine. BTW: Horag lists their 3.4 V8 making 550 hp @10,500 RPM. The Acura engine must be much superior as evidenced by the performance difference. How much is it packing? Last edited by chewymonster; 20 Mar 2007 at 02:45. |
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20 Mar 2007, 09:35 (Ref:1872125) | #133 | ||
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Interesting that the HoragLista is so slow. It has Michelin tyres and decent drivers. The more I think about it, it seems that the Lola chassis doesn't really like big V engines. Seems perfectly happy with straight-four turbos. Note that the Mazda engined car was faster over a single lap than the Fernandez, and that was on Kumhos. Will be intriguing to see how the various chassis/engine combinations work out in LMS this year as we've got a good mix.
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22 Mar 2007, 23:31 (Ref:1874092) | #134 | ||
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its all about the power
as we've seen in the alms, adding weight don't work! strangle the smokey b*****ds! |
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Fred Mackowiecki- the one man I'd love to swap surnames (and talent) with. |
25 Mar 2007, 22:05 (Ref:1876247) | #135 | |
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Some first performance comparison of Peugeot 908 vs petrol competitors during HTTT test.
lap times:
top speed:
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25 Mar 2007, 22:11 (Ref:1876253) | #136 | |
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DSC had a talk with Minassian and he claimed that they were really pushing and that the car is not quicker. He also claims they can have torque or top end speed, but not both and that they are running medium downforce (not high downforce setup). All this sound hard to believe.
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25 Mar 2007, 22:21 (Ref:1876264) | #137 | ||
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26 Mar 2007, 07:49 (Ref:1876472) | #138 | ||
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26 Mar 2007, 08:58 (Ref:1876516) | #139 | |||
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a) they probably aren't at full chat- they have no reason to go flat out and reveal their potential yet. b) even if they are, you can bet they push like hell to sort all these problems out ASAP if they are slower, because they have such a huge budget (unless they havent got a huge budget, any ideas?) |
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Fred Mackowiecki- the one man I'd love to swap surnames (and talent) with. |
26 Mar 2007, 10:10 (Ref:1876572) | #140 | |
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Peugeot replace the HDi engine and did 1:43.709 this morning.
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27 Mar 2007, 21:34 (Ref:1878018) | #141 | |||
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Henri Pescarolo still has a clear vision on what needs to be changed to make petrol competitive again.
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27 Mar 2007, 21:49 (Ref:1878035) | #142 | ||
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28 Mar 2007, 21:50 (Ref:1878738) | #143 | |||
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mind you, thats not that much if you look at r+d. at least they're serious. |
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Fred Mackowiecki- the one man I'd love to swap surnames (and talent) with. |
15 Apr 2007, 17:23 (Ref:1892154) | #144 | ||
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So now the first race is over what can we see? Well, the quickest Peugeot lap was 2.5 seconds faster than the nearest Petrol engined LMP!
Anybody else like to defend the indefensable and say that the ACO have got it right? To all those posters who keep saying "let's just wait and see", well now we have seen and quite frankly it Stinks. The ACO need to increase the size of Petrol restrictor's by a few millimetre's Now, not next year. We don't need to wait and see anymore, once Peugeot iron out the last remaining Gremlins it's just going to be an ALMS esq. "cakewalk" farce all over again. |
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15 Apr 2007, 20:54 (Ref:1892462) | #145 | |
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Again, it all comes down to the fact that there is no factory gasoline P1. The P2 winning Horag Lista was 3 second slower per lap than the factory Porsches/Acura at Sebring.
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15 Apr 2007, 23:31 (Ref:1892621) | #146 | ||
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Quote:
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16 Apr 2007, 00:43 (Ref:1892640) | #147 | ||
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16 Apr 2007, 01:26 (Ref:1892650) | #148 | |
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huh?
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16 Apr 2007, 02:25 (Ref:1892656) | #149 | |
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The diesel displacement is 5.5 liters. So is the gasoline engine. The diesel gets a turbocharger. If you look at road going engines, you see a very similar situation.
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16 Apr 2007, 04:10 (Ref:1892667) | #150 | ||
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The diesel that Audi uses in the R10 is NOTHING like what road machinery uses, so that makes comparisons there very difficult. And frankly, I have a VERY hard time rationalizing that the diesel turbos need 37.5% more displacement than the petrol turbos (5.5-litres for diesels vs. 4.0-litres for petrol turbos).
What's even more out of whack is that turbo diesels are allowed 5.5-litres, but naturally aspirated petrol engines are only allowed 6.0-litres. Turbos (like on the Porsche 935), or two-stage supercharging (a la Mercedes W163 and Alfa Romeo Type 159 Alfetta), can reasonably double the horsepower of a given naturally aspirated engine. Diesel burns more efficiently, and contains more potential energy per volume than petrol, so how exactly can the ACO diesel/petrol regs be particularly well-matched as they are? And even if you restrict the diesels on horsepower to comparable levels (and they do seem to be fairly close in that department with 600-650hp for most engines), the diesels still have substantially more torque. Heck, do any of the petrol engines give 700ft-lbs of torque, let alone 850+ft-lbs? Last edited by Purist; 16 Apr 2007 at 04:13. |
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