Phoenix Off

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by indycool

The promoter lost a LOT of money -- I've heard everything from $9-19 million. After doing that, is it a surprise they canceled Phoenix?

Links at all there Indycool? $10 million difference is quite substantial. It is a substantial loss, theres no hiding from that. But surely these signs have been around all year, not just since Pheonix cancellation

Originally Posted by indycool

The downtown casinos saw no change from their business on race weekend and actually complained they lost when the track didn't get torn down by Monday and people couldn't even reach downtown easily.

Is there a link here IndyCool?

[indycool]

No links, D.R.T. Just a little knowledge of Vegas and some friends out there. For example, I have no pictures of the new health research center going in beside the World Market Center but it can't be a secret out there. I have BEEN to the Thomas and Mack Center before, so I KNOW what's around there. Yes, the difference of $10 million is quite substantial but the $9 million comes from race PROPONENTS, so I disbelieve the LOW figure more than I disbelieve the HIGH one. The LVCVA and City Council have already heard from the casinos, long ago.

CC had been trying to do this one for three years and it became a reality this year. You hafta understand Las Vegas before you can understand this was a bad idea in the first place. Las Vegas' main goal is to import money. No non-union construction people are allowed to build a track, fencing, barriers and stands. The World Market Center as an HQ or media center or both doesn't come cheap. There is something big going on in Vegas 24/7, 365 days a year, so it doesn't stand out like a San Jose or Houston or Cleveland and any big deal costs beau coup bucks. And the city got the standard pitch of 150,000 fans for the weekend from the CC side.

Sure, I suppose it can happen again if KK freights it. But I can see some lawsuits coming over contracts, etc.

All that glittered on the race on TV was not gold.

[blueflagger]

Originally Posted by indycool

Both Phoenix and CC have said the Phoenix cancellation doesn't affect Vegas, but signs are starting to point that it does or will in some form.

I understand that Vegas may remain in April. Initially, the plan had been to move that to the end of the season for 2008 and put Phoenix in April.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

..and I guess since they had leftover paint they put it on his Grand Am cars at Daytona...along with some other races, I believe...

Hold that thought on the ganassi grand am team, John!

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by indycool

1. The promoter lost a LOT of money -- I've heard everything from $9-19 million. After doing that, is it a surprise they canceled Phoenix?
2. Construction in the area of the race course is ongoing for a new health center right where one set of bleachers was for this year for one, plus other projects.
3. The downtown casinos saw no change from their business on race weekend and actually complained they lost when the track didn't get torn down by Monday and people couldn't even reach downtown easily.
4. Jim Freudenberg recently told the LV City Council that the promoter couldn't pay its bill to the city yet because CC hadn't paid them (what payment CC would be making to the promoter is conjecture and ??).
5. There is already talk -- and it's on a board or two -- that an area around the Thomas and Mack Center at UNLV is being scoped and considered as a new venue. IMO, shutting down a major artery like Tropicana (when traffic is terrible for stuffing 16,000 into that arena for a boxing match) and/or Swenson to find room to race around UNLV dormitories....IMO, someone's out of their minds.

Link or Source Please!

You made the claim now back it up.

[indycool]

Multiple.....see above......

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by indycool

Multiple.....see above......

Multiple what? Some friends in Vegas? I have friends in Vegas. What position would they be in to support such statements? Maybe I know them as well.

A link from a news organization would help.

Originally Posted by indycool

No links, D.R.T. Just a little knowledge of Vegas and some friends out there.

As I understand it, the race COST around $9 million to stage, before counting the proceeds. The promoters expected to make a loss the first year, their words not mine.

[indycool]

Think what you wish, mountainstar.....time will tell.

[paul-collins]

As to how the casinos fared, there was this:

http://www.lvrj.com/news/7917617.html

No significant uptick on traffic.

[blueflagger]

The impression I got was that the primary reason the city of Las Vegas wanted to stage the race there to attract developers as many street races have done for cities across the US, not to attract more gamblers. The owners of the affected casinos can grumble about it, but I don't think their complaints will deter the city if, as it appears, developers are already taking an interest in the area.

[indycool]

It is common knowledge in Vegas that the city wants to do anything it can to boost traffic downtown. The money comes from gambling to do so.

[blueflagger]

I had understood that they (city officials) were pro-racing because it would cause future income, not current income as the current casino owners want.

But I think I am leading us off-topic here. From reading between the lines in this thread, I would say that I shouldn't buy advance airline tickets for Vegas next year no matter what the date. Glad I hadn't done so for Phoenix though some marshals had.

[D.R.T.]

Definitely a decision that will have to be made now, for the very reason you make blueflagger.

For next years event to be an improvement over 07, Vegas, fans, marshalls and CC need to know want the go is early.

They have said yes its a goer, but they cant wait around to show that its a goer or the event will stagnate.

[indycool]

blueflagger, there is nothing that is done in Las Vegas that isn't designed to bring money into town on an immediate basis except building more casinos, which is constantly being done. Money is the import. There IS no export.

[Tony Clifton]

Originally Posted by indycool

blueflagger, there is nothing that is done in Las Vegas that isn't designed to bring money into town on an immediate basis except building more casinos, which is constantly being done. Money is the import. There IS no export.

Correct indycool.
For Las Vegas it IS all about the casinos the drop.

[Dutton]

There can be no doubt that gambling is a highly effective way to take peoples' money...

[theracegypsy]

Originally Posted by indycool

blueflagger, there is nothing that is done in Las Vegas that isn't designed to bring money into town on an immediate basis except building more casinos, which is constantly being done. Money is the import. There IS no export.

indycool, you are getting confused between Vegas City and Clarke County. Vegas City, where the race is, is very run down and in need of development. The Strip is in Clarke County, and Vegas City gets no income from it.

[indycool]

True. The motivations for both are the same. Incidentally, if the race moves to the Thomas and Mack Center, that is in Clark County and is under the government of the state's university system since it's on the UNLV campus, so there's more politickin' to start all over.

[blueflagger]

Originally Posted by theracegypsy

indycool, you are getting confused between Vegas City and Clarke County. Vegas City, where the race is, is very run down and in need of development. The Strip is in Clarke County, and Vegas City gets no income from it.

Sorry, I should have clarified that. The city wants future investment. The Strip is doing fine financially as is, thank you. The Lady Luck hotel which closed in early 2006 for "renovations" was still closed and looking very derelict over a year later. It is within the city limits as are some of the other run-down spots.