[ELMS] ELMS Discussion

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Is casual xenophobia required to be a motorsports fan or something?

[Juntos]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

Is casual xenophobia required to be a motorsports fan or something?

If you're commenting my posting that is an unfortunate quote. Anyone who had run or worked on a ACO-organised series knows what I am saying is true.

[airbusA346]

Lieb and Bruni replace Olsen and Cairoli at Proton for the Monza round.

http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/mon...n-competition/

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by airbusA346

Lieb and Bruni replace Olsen and Cairoli at Proton for the Monza round.

http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/mon...n-competition/

Porsche Supercup clash?

[airbusA346]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Porsche Supercup clash?

Nurburgring 24

Cairoli with Team75 Bernhard and Olsen with Manthey.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by airbusA346

Lieb and Bruni replace Olsen and Cairoli at Proton for the Monza round.

http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/mon...n-competition/

Well those are certainly pretty good subs to bring in!

[Deleted]

https://www.europeanlemansseries.com...try%20list.pdf

Okay so which of these get entry for Le Mans then... it's probably easier to ditch out cars that are almost surely not gonna go:
BHK LMP2 *
Cool Racing LMP2 *
Carlin LMP2 *
Inter Europol LMP2 *
2nd IDEC LMP2 *
2nd Algarve Pro LMP2 *
*All LMP3 teams*
Luzich GTE
2nd Kessel GTE

* Maybe to reserves

Ebimotors may be 50-50


Anyway...
https://www.europeanlemansseries.com...ns-series/5547

"For the first time the ELMS received more entries than available places and a selection process was made to fill the available slots on the 2019 grid."

Well that's not so hard to since for the first time you also did this:

"Following the decision made at the end of last season, the grid size has been limited to 41 cars for the 2019 season due to the amount of space that is available in some of the pitlane at the circuits visited by the ELMS and will allow all teams to fuel and service their cars in front of their allocated pit boxes.""

Why do they go to such circuits then that cannot hold all of the willing entries...

[Deleted]

High Class Racing should just quit as protest. Yet another year, yeat another investment, and yet another rejection from the ACO for LM, in favor of GTE

[Akrapovic]

Whilst I'm not advocating yet another ORECA LMP2, I do feel like High Class Racing deserves a spot given the investments they have made. More so than Ford and Porsche flooding GTE-Pro.

[Deleted]

It's also funny how last year Ebimotors managed to get to Le Mans by just running GT3 in sprint support series the previous year, but now that they've actually been for a while in the bigger endurance series with ACO car, they're at the bottom of reserves. Not that I would have ever wanted another LMP car being rejected for more GTE but just saying the perversion

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Chiana

It's also funny how last year Ebimotors managed to get to Le Mans by just running GT3 in sprint support series the previous year, but now that they've actually been for a while in the bigger endurance series with ACO car, they're at the bottom of reserves. Not that I would have ever wanted another LMP car being rejected for more GTE but just saying the perversion

Yeah, sometimes it's hard to argue about a certain LMP2 or GTE-Am team being included, but other times it's quite obvious they kinda should be included given how the teams have stepped up. That's why I'm against factories just filling out the Pro slots - because now the ACO has to hope that Ebimotors and High Class don't down tools and move to Blancpain or something, because they'll need them when Ford end the program, and Porsche scale back a little.

Gotta treat the wee guys with respect - you'll need them.

[Deleted]

Another option would be to just to return to pre-qualifying and determine spots also by performance

And before anyone comes around saying it's thing of the 90's, the last time it happened wasn't too long ago actually - for the GTC class at ILMC/ALMS PLM 2011

And if IndyCar can do the bumping again, why can't we

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Another option would be to just to return to pre-qualifying and determine spots also by performance

And before anyone comes around saying it's thing of the 90's, the last time it happened wasn't too long ago actually - for the GTC class at ILMC/ALMS PLM 2011

And if IndyCar can do the bumping again, why can't we

I'd consider something like pre-qualifying during the LM test day for, lets say, the last 5 slots of LMP2 and GTE-Am.

But then again I'd rather have another United LMP2 than Ford #4 and High Class over Porsche #4.

[TheMightyM]

And the question becomes how does the relatively few ELMS teams being selected for the big race impact ELMS P2 and GTE-Am car counts in 2019 and beyond…

[Juntos]

ELMS is in good shape. ACO will only look at ELMS's teams troubles in the very day that the grid starts shrinking. Oh, the cleverness of me!

[Nickberg555]

ELMS is very strong. That LMP2 field is very strong. Hopefully they can make a real LMP3 effort.. like its the European Championship or something. Now it looks like you buy a LMP3 as a team and can choose any championship you want. GTE is great and its growing now.. while they told us that this class would die. WEC isn't affordable for all the GTE teams. And know anyone how much more expensive it is to run a GTE car than run a GT3 car?

[Juntos]

The only reason to race a GTE car in the ELMS is to get a Le Mans 24 hrs entry. Nobody remembers today who did win it last year.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Juntos

The only reason to race a GTE car in the ELMS is to get a Le Mans 24 hrs entry. Nobody remembers today who did win it last year.

You can say pretty much same thing about any ACO series and category though

[helgi]

I do not want to start a new thread (ELMS 2019) but there's a question about the season. That Oreca 07 "Aurus" thing. Firstly, I can not understand why is it possible to advertise a manufacturer in a class where all auto brands are "forbidden to talk about" and everything is about drivers (if they have Oreca, other way you are lost and forgotten). Is it another "Alpine case"? But who needs the rules then? Why it was necessary to drop some very serious LMP2 manufacturers and invent rather suspicious 2,3 brands rule (Oreca as 1 and 1,3 are divided between LigierLoosers and Dallara made for DPi)?
Besides, http://www.dailysportscar.com/2019/0...d-classes.html says that Orecaurus is a rehomologated one. Is this a "joker" for Oreca or yet another "Alpine case"?
All in all that lobbying circus made me stop watching ELMS and almost cease my interest in LMP1 forcing me to go back to F1 where you still can dig and find some interesting tech bits. Ridiculous situation.

[Deleted]

I believe the lame excuse they have for these soulless fake rebrands is that these are very minor boutique manufacturers, not major OEMs. So if say Mazda came and said they wanted to rebrand another clone chassis, it wouldn't get accepted

And yes we talked about this a little bit earlier on the LM side but it is literally just another Alpine case a la clone Oreca to every other spec Oreca on the grid without any jokering

The cartel regulations exist solely for the said cartel

[ApexTurtle]

The new LMP2 rules were made to make LMP2 cheaper and to make sure constructors went to LMP1. It has accomplished both goals. Plus it saved ELMS which now has a very healthy grid. It's not the fault of the rules that Ginetta then failed to actually get that LMP1 car on the grid

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by ApexTurtle

The new LMP2 rules were made to make LMP2 cheaper and to make sure constructors went to LMP1. It has accomplished both goals. Plus it saved ELMS which now has a very healthy grid. It's not the fault of the rules that Ginetta then failed to actually get that LMP1 car on the grid

Where's the evidence for running LMP2 now than in 2016 being much cheaper. Indeed, the teams in AsLMS running the old cars still don't seem to be dying of poverty

Oreca and Dallara went to LMP1 yes but not for the first year even, only after Porsche pulled out. Oreca is only there because Rebellion wanted to make a comeback anyway after privateer competition had returned to the class. And in any case the whole point shall redundant with the forthcoming LMP2 spec regs when the old nonhybrid P1s will be killed off and replaced by OEM bop wagons

It is partly fault of the rules that Ginetta failed get there, as the draft regulations of 2017 said you can enter nonhybrid LMP1 with factory team (say Ginetta factory team), but then they were changed again for 2018. So Ginetta might've run the cars themselves, but now they aren't allowed to but must find a customer

As for "saving" ELMS grid, that makes no sense. Here's a list of _entered participants_ for opening round each year this decade:

2019
11x Oreca
05x Onroak
02x Dallara
= 18x

2018
10x Oreca
05x Onroak
04x Dallara
=19x

2017
04x Oreca
05x Onroak
03x Dallara
= 12x

2016
05x Oreca
07x Onroak
01x Zytek
02x BR
= 15x

2015
07x Oreca
03x Onroak
02x Zytek
02x BR
= 14x

2014
06x Oreca
04x Onroak
04x Zytek
= 14x

2013
05x Oreca
01x Onroak
02x Zytek
01x Lola
01x HPD
= 10x

2012
06x Oreca
02x Onroak
02x Zytek
01x Lola
01x Norma
= 12x

2011 (under LMP1)
04x Oreca
01x Zytek
01x Norma
01x Lola
01x MG
02x HPD
= 10x

2010 (under LMP1)
01x Oreca
02x Zytek
02x Pescarolo
04x Lola
01x MG
01x HPD
01x Radical
= 12x

So numbers wise it's been pretty much where it is all way long, even in the horrible 2012 season.

Meanwhile here's a list of a different P2s circulating around the globe:

2017 On-track raced
Oak 'Ligier' JSP217 & Oak 'Ligier' JS P2
Oreca 07 & Oreca 05 (+ fake Alpine, fake Aurus)
Dallara P217

2018 On-track raced
Oak 'Ligier' JSP217 & Oak 'Ligier' JS P2
Oreca 07 & Oreca 05 (+ fake Alpine)
Dallara P217
Riley MK30

2017 On-track raced
Oak 'Ligier' JSP217 & Oak 'Ligier' JS P2
Oreca 07 & Oreca 05 (+ fake Alpine)
Dallara P217
Riley MK30

2016 On-track raced
Oak 'Ligier' JS P2 & Oak Pescarolo 01 'Morgan' (+EVO)
Zytek 'Gibson' Z11SN
Oreca 05 & Oreca 03R (+ fake Alpine)
SMP BR01
Lola B12/80 'Mazda

2015 On-track raced
Oak 'Ligier' JS P2 & Oak Pescarolo 01 'Morgan' (+EVO)
Zytek 'Gibson' Z11SN
HPD ARX-03 & HPD ARX-04b
Oreca 05 & Oreca 03R (+ fake Alpine)
SMP BR01
Dome S103
Lola B12/80 'Mazda'
(Pilbeam MP100 LMP2)

2014 On-track raced
Oak 'Ligier' JS P2 & Oak Pescarolo 01 'Morgan'
Zytek Z11SN
HPD ARX-03
Oreca 03R (+ fake Alpine)
Lola B12/80 'Mazda'
(Pilbeam MP100 LMP2)
(Radical SR9)

2013 On-Track raced
Oak Pescarolo 01 'Morgan'
Zytek Z11SN
HPD ARX-03
Oreca 03 (+ fake Alpine)
Lola B11/40 & Lola B12/80
Kodewa 'Lotus' T128
(Radical SR9)

2012 On-Track raced
Oak Pescarolo 01 'Morgan'
Zytek Z11SN
HPD ARX-03
Oreca 03
Lola B11/80 & Lola B12/80 (&87)
Norma M200P
Radical SR10

2011 On-Track raced
Oak Pescarolo 01
Zytek Z11SN
HPD ARX-01d & HPD ARX-01g
Oreca 03
Lola B08/80 & Lola B11/40 & Lola B12/80 & MG-Lola EX265
Norma M200P
(Radical SR9)

2010 On-Track raced
Pescarolo 01
Porsche RS Spyder EVO
Zytek 'Ginetta' GZ09S (&2)
HPD ARX-01c
Lola B07/70 & Lola B08/80 (&47) & Lola B09/80 (&86) & MG-Lola EX265
Courage Oreca LC75
Norma M200P
WR LMP2008
Radical SR9

[ApexTurtle]

LMP2 is much cheaper because of spec engines and fewer chassis choices.

[Deleted]

How does fewer chassis choices lower cost for anything? Especially when it was a cost cap + tech freeze formula to begin with it anyway

Are you working for Oreca

[ApexTurtle]

More customers = fewer construction costs. Not that hard to understand, surely