Milka Duno To Run 10 Races

[luke]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Please re-read my post. I do not rate her at this level either.

That being said, driving a car on an oval anywhere near the "limit" is not easy for one thing and will result in something dramatic happening when one makes a mistake. Running flat out is a result of the hp/downforce equation. That does not make driving at the limit easier. It makes getting to the limit less complicated.

So regarding the "seems to crash every time if not nearly everytime" statement," how many times has Duno crashed this season compared to the number of races she has been in?

John you really don't have to make a mountain out of a mole hill. And re-read my post again. I did not say it is easy but its pure logic that with the lower speeds and less hp, the high downforce, her running on her own, and nearly every oval on the schedule seems to be flat out these days she shouldn't be crashing every weekend like she seems to. And I never said YOU rate her I just said that is the reason why I don't rate her. It's not easy and I am not saying it is, but keeping your right foot flat to the floor for 100% of the time and just steering left isn't as challenging as having to dab the brakes, lift etc and you know you can't compare flat out oval racing to road racing which you are trying to in your previous post. I am not syaing its easy for the last time but the challenge isn't the same going flat out that is why IMO she shouldn't be crashing as oftern as she does. If she was dabbing the brakes and lifting etc or tried going high to to get a better line when lifting and crashing because of it then that's cool but like I said countless times she shouldn't be crashing as oftern as she does under situations she does. That is why I don't rate her compared to other oval drivers.

[JohnSSC]

It would be great if one could get an answer around here....

So, how many times has she crashed? I keep reading statements like: "crashing every weekend." Does she? Then demonstrate it. I mean, if one can take the time to sort through the pictures of other drivers to find one that is unflattering, certainly one could back up such a contention with facts...

Did I not say that road racing and oval racing are two different disciplines? You are the one trying to make one sound "easy." I was noting that you are oversimplifying. My analogy was that just as road racing is not just about hitting an apex, oval racing is not "keeping your right foot to the floor and steering left." I would suggest that if you were talking to a dreamy hunk of masculine racing car driver like Christiano DaMatta, he would tell you that ovals aren't easy.

[luke]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

It would be great if one could get an answer around here....

So, how many times has she crashed? I keep reading statements like: "crashing every weekend." Does she? Then demonstrate it. I mean, if one can take the time to sort through the pictures of other drivers to find one that is unflattering, certainly one could back up such a contention with facts...

I will go look for the stats now. But like I said re-read my post.. I said she seems to crash most if not all race weekends when she shouldn't.

Did I not say that road racing and oval racing are two different disciplines? You are the one trying to make one sound "easy." I was noting that you are oversimplifying. My analogy was that just as road racing is not just about hitting an apex, oval racing is not "keeping your right foot to the floor and steering left." I would suggest that if you were talking to a dreamy hunk of masculine racing car driver like Christiano DaMatta, he would tell you that ovals aren't easy.

For the last I am not trying to make it sound easy! and you know that. That's why I said it's not easy! I did not say all oval racing is about keeping the right foot to the floor and steering left. Its logical that flat out oval racing isn't as challenging as driving on ovals when you have to brake, lift etc.

[NAC]

You asked for it

(YTD)
Rank 19
Points 81
Behind -413
Starts 6
Finishes 2
Poles 0
Wins 0
Top 5 0
Top 10 0
Winnings $365,555

http://www.indycar.com/stats/driver_...&driver_id=336

[luke]

There you ho John. 2 finishes out of 6 starts. She has aslo crashed before races in practice. Nashville, Indianapolis stick in my mind among others.

[Dutton]

To be fair, that list of stats lists everything apart from what John is asking for...

It does not breakdown the DNFs, which is what is required to answer his question.

I would do it, but I have not seen all the races.

[Leighton Irwin]

I haven't seen all the races either but it strikes me that she has had 'Handling
Problems" AKA black flag 2 or 3 times. I agree she shouldn't be out there and said that from the beginning.

[OpenWheel4ever]

Originally Posted by luke

Drivers like her and Dana should never have been racing in this series that is what Bobby Unser said and I agree with him. If there wasn't a split I know they wouldn't...

Luke, sorry but you can't compare her and Paul Dana. He was my favourite driver and I admire him a lot. If you mention Dana, sorry but you can also mention Manning, Hunter-Reay, Fisher, Carpenter, Simmons...

Why do everybody compare Dana and Duno...?

Paul had bad results cause he was driving at Hemelgarn racing. Kite, Chesson did not have great results too while driving in this team. He did not make a mistake in the contact with Carpenter. His right-front suspension broke when he hit a debris of Carpenter's car. His speed was the same as many driver on track in the same time.

Please respect him. He finished 2nd in the Infiniti Pro series 2004 so for me he has talent.

Duno is more than a rookie. She has never drove an IndyCar before. No Pro series too. So for me she had to have at least two season in the ladder serie before going up to IndyCar. But I think she didn't have the choice. It was the sponsor's choice in my opinion.

Duno is not made to race this cars...

Hope you will understand my view point. Thanks

OpenWheel

[luke]

Originally Posted by OpenWheel4ever

Luke, sorry but you can't compare her and Paul Dana. He was my favourite driver and I admire him a lot. If you mention Dana, sorry but you can also mention Manning, Hunter-Reay, Fisher, Carpenter, Simmons...

Why do everybody compare Dana and Duno...?

Paul had bad results cause he was driving at Hemelgarn racing. Kite, Chesson did not have great results too while driving in this team. He did not make a mistake in the contact with Carpenter. His right-front suspension broke when he hit a debris of Carpenter's car. His speed was the same as many driver on track in the same time.

Please respect him. He finished 2nd in the Infiniti Pro series 2004 so for me he has talent.

Duno is more than a rookie. She has never drove an IndyCar before. No Pro series too. So for me she had to have at least two season in the ladder serie before going up to IndyCar. But I think she didn't have the choice. It was the sponsor's choice in my opinion.

Duno is not made to race this cars...

Hope you will understand my view point. Thanks

OpenWheel

OW4ever I listed them together in the same sentance because I remember Bobby Unser whom I respect dearly saying Dana shouldn't have even been racing. And I agree with him.

Manning, Hunter-Reay are two very good drivers. Manning has equipment problems at Foyt and is uncompetitive. In a top team I believe he could be a winner. On the road courses which aren't such a problem he has been very impressive. Ryan has done very well in just 2 races, he is a good al rounder.

Jeff Simmons did very poor this year. But drivers such as him and Chesson should still have a ride as they are the type of drivers that the IRL was created for.

[luke]

Duno: (hardly anything to even say)

Kansas she ran way off the pace. Had a lot of d/f for the start of the race gradually took it off.

Indy Crashed in practice and race

The rest she has either crashed or been black flagged for being off the pace.

Nashville I remember her crashing during practice so she had to withdraw from the event

On August 5, 2007, prior to the Firestone Indy 400, SAMAX Motorsport officials met with Indy Racing League officials, including Chief Operating Officer Brian Barnhart, to discuss Duno's progress; media and fans speculated that Duno's IRL career could soon be over. [9] Duno did race in the event, but retired on lap 44 due to mechanical failure.

Following the Firestone Indy 400, Duno was placed on probation by the IRL[5] and will not be racing in the Meijer Indy 300 at Kentucky Speedway[10] as originally planned[

And from her website the first line: 'Talent, beauty and youth are just a few of the many adjectives that define the image of Milka Duno.'

-Sorry I just had to laugh.

As for Grand-Am she only because her team mate was very fast.

[Dutton]

Originally Posted by luke

Jeff Simmons did very poor this year. But drivers such as him and Chesson should still have a ride as they are the type of drivers that the IRL was created for.

So the IRL was created for drivers who meet the marketable profile, regardless of track performance? I realise that is not what you are trying to say, but I think clarification of exactly what you are saying would be helpful.

There gets a point where it does not matter how well a driver seemingly fits a "profile": if they are not performing well enough, then they are not good enough (thus they should not be there).

[luke]

Originally Posted by Dutton

So the IRL was created for drivers who meet the marketable profile, regardless of track performance? I realise that is not what you are trying to say, but I think clarification of exactly what you are saying would be helpful.

There gets a point where it does not matter how well a driver seemingly fits a "profile": if they are not performing well enough, then they are not good enough (thus they should not be there).

American / oval / grass roots background and opportunity. That's what the IRL was pre 2003 anyway.

(About Jeff Simmons he has been poor but we can't say he wasn't given the opportunity.)

[Dutton]

Not sure you needed to quote my entire post when it is right there before your response...

So, presumably, you are saying Jeff should leave? This is contrary to your initial post, but the alternative is you are saying he has been poor despite good opportunity, which means he has shown himself not good enough, but should remain because he fits the profile.

As you have suggested, the IRL is nothing like grass-roots based, or what have you. It was never going to operate like that. If that was genuinely the plan, well the business plan and such were terrible for that end. More likely is that side of it was PR.

[luke]

Originally Posted by Dutton

Not sure you needed to quote my entire post when it is right there before your response...

So, presumably, you are saying Jeff should leave? This is contrary to your initial post, but the alternative is you are saying he has been poor despite good opportunity, which means he has shown himself not good enough, but should remain because he fits the profile.

As you have suggested, the IRL is nothing like grass-roots based, or what have you. It was never going to operate like that. If that was genuinely the plan, well the business plan and such were terrible for that end. More likely is that side of it was PR.

Dutton you don't need to tell me that, I am not the IRL. And I never said Simmons should remain. I am simply listing he is the type of driver what the IRL was intended for. Nothing more nothing else. I did say he has been poor in a good opportunity.

[NAC]

Originally Posted by Dutton

To be fair, that list of stats lists everything apart from what John is asking for...

It does not breakdown the DNFs, which is what is required to answer his question.

I would do it, but I have not seen all the races.

Look here
http://www.indycar.com/stats/driver_...&driver_id=336

[runshaw]

.

[Dutton]

Well, luke, you did say he should remain in the earlier post: perhaps it is not what you meant to say, but it is what you said.

In the later one you then said he had been poor despite good opportunity. Presumably this means you think he is wasting a seat?

You have said both sides. Which is it you think?

I am not criticising you...I do not mind which you think...I just want to know what you are meaning.

[luke]

Well I never said Simmons should leave....But he among others are the drivers that were part of the original plan to be in the Indy Racing League. So I think it is important with the IRL's current direction that it tries to keep its onriginal intended roots still. Like I said Simmons has been poor and has had the opportinity but IMO it's important him among others stay in the series because of their paths etc and try to continue that path. Chesson is another example. American and can race ovals..

But Paul Dana I am sorry along with Milka (back on topic) are just too slow and aren't even good enough and a lot worse than Carpenter, Foyt, Manning etc. Herb and Kite you can also add that list of drivers that IMO are just too slow.

[Dutton]

Originally Posted by Dutton

So, presumably, you are saying Jeff should leave? This is contrary to your initial post, but the alternative is you are saying he has been poor despite good opportunity, which means he has shown himself not good enough, but should remain because he fits the profile.

I had presumed you were not proposing the staying-because-of-the-profile-regardless-of-track-performance thing. It seems you were. I completely disagree with that approach, but each to their own.

**********

Back on topic: I essentially agree with luke regarding the Duno-Dana thing (although I think I rate Dana higher than him).

You have the likes of Manning and such who, IMO, are perfectly reasonable enough to be in the series. Then you have the likes of Dana who are there, but are not really good enough (although [just] passable). Then you have the Duno category (100% out of their depth, and should never have been there in the first place).

[NAC]

IRL should make it a rule that entry into IRL being a season (or several races) in the Pro Series. Isn't that meant to be the feeder series?

[Dutton]

Well, I think there have to be some top names for financial viability (those guys are not going to waste years doing IPS). In the event of x-races being necessary, which a big name could conceivably do, then that is to the detriment of the IPS (defeats the point of it, IMO).

Perhaps a rule stating that x-cars of each team (the number varying depending on how many cars a team has) must have a driver who has spent x-time in IPS?

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by NAC

IRL should make it a rule that entry into IRL being a season (or several races) in the Pro Series. Isn't that meant to be the feeder series?

As well intended as that is, you now have a situation, where most of the current grid wouldn't be racing in the series. Perhaps you view that as good, maybe bad, that's your call. But all of the CART/CCWS/F1/F3000/GTP2/Atlantics people don't run in the series, as they are likely disinterested in most cases to run in a support series for a year.

[NAC]

OK enough of the nit picking, you know what i mean. Unproven drivers have to show their worth.

What's the deal with NASCAR, can a driver go straight to Nextel? Look at Montoya, he did the time.

My point being that if Milk & Donuts had of spent time learning the craft of single seaters on the types of tracks that IRL drives and would of had some sort of qualifying to get in would we be sitting here having this discussion?

[Leighton Irwin]

So if Alonso gets really ticked off and decides to go IRL he should have to run in IPS first? Yeah right!

[luke]

I wouldn't mind seeing have to go threw it.