Silverstone Festival (Classic) 2023

[coppice]

I went for 3 days and loved it.
Food? I had no problem in sourcing my breakfast bacon sandwich at all.
Access? I was furious when I saw the signs restricting access but relived when nobody took the slightest notice and one FJ driver even moved the sign himself and invited people in to the garage.
Commentary? Whatever , I can't hear it most of the time and will confess to rather enjoying the feeling of superiority I get when they make an error (and I bet I am not alone in that ).
Viewing ? Not bad if you know where to go - I keep on the move and walked nearly 20 miles over the meeting.

Worth going for the sight and sound of the Ferrari 512s alone.

[Derwent]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

I am very sorry Mike

But if you think the F1 race makes a loss these days you are surely mistaken.

Do the basic math, they pay 25 odd million to Liberty to host, maybe 30, that is one of the cheapest fees.

Even at average prices, you are looking at 400 to 450k people. They are paying even at teh cheapest 350 a head for three days. That is way over 130 million pounds.

They dont get to sell advertising no, but they do make vast sums on ground rent for stands, food etc some of which they take a cut of.

This does also not include the corporate fees that are paid for boxes etc. The parking fees on fans, the no doubt vast sums they make from program sales and their own merch and food sales.

if they are making a loss from all that (and I can tell you they are not) then they are not very good business people.

yes they have immense outlay, security, bins, extra stands, buses, massive extra staff, printing programs, policing for road closures

All that has happened is that they have realised that they are not a sports venue, they are a brand, that brand has to make money all the time, they only really have three big events a year, F1, motoGp and the Classic, so they maximise profit from them.

The running costs of the place are immense hence why they are selling off lots of it for hotels, Porsche they made immense losses with f1 before, and MotoGP relaying track etc, so they HAVE to make it back, they have F1 falling into their lap right now with people so desperate to be there they pay over the odds for tickets.

So it is just business, but please don't think they are making a loss from f1, not anymore.

Surely the 450K attendance is the total over the three days, so perhaps 140K per day.

[kipper]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

Do the basic math, they pay 25 odd million to Liberty to host, maybe 30, that is one of the cheapest fees.

Even at average prices, you are looking at 400 to 450k people. They are paying even at teh cheapest 350 a head for three days. That is way over 130 million pounds.

They dont get to sell advertising no, but they do make vast sums on ground rent for stands, food etc some of which they take a cut of.

This does also not include the corporate fees that are paid for boxes etc. The parking fees on fans, the no doubt vast sums they make from program sales and their own merch and food sales.

if they are making a loss from all that (and I can tell you they are not) then they are not very good business people.

At the risk of diverting from the topic - but the capacity of Silverstone isn't 450,000 a day - it is 450,000 over the four days that public are admitted to the GP. Therefore, the total number of tickets sold amount to significantly less that £130m. Also, Silverstone only receives the ticket income. All other concessions have to pay F1 (rather than Silverstone) for the right to be there. Indeed, Silverstone also has to pay to sell its own merchandise at the GP. The event undoubtedly makes a profit - it's just a lot lower than the figure suggested.

[The Fat Clerk]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

I am very sorry Mike



So it is just business, but please don't think they are making a loss from f1, not anymore.

Your evidence to back that statement up?

[flatlandsman]

I was not suggesting for a second the attendance was each day, 450k over a weekend was exactly my understanding. And if you do some simple maths and you know some basics.

Even 400k at let's say 300 quid for all three days is 120 million quid! Minus the hosting fee which I think is between 25 and 30 milion. And then all the other costs, if you are not making a profit there, surely there is something going on!

And that is 300 quid for three days, we all know vast amounts of tickets are more than that, not including corporate.

As I say this is not scientific it is just basic number crunching based on what I know and what is released to the public.

This weekend I did not see a big crowd from the pictures, a few have said it was low. Some people are entertained, some were not. I think you will always find some good and bad in ay event like this.

But the reports here and elsewhere are not massively positive. As I say some people are easily pleased, these days I think that is harder to do!!

[Peter Mallett]

Soo, the venue makes a profit, which is good. The circuit however, now resembles a housing/trading estate with little or no atmosphere when crowds are medium so the "Festival" fell flat in that respect.

As someone who has attended since 1989(?) and participated in a few along the way, it just seemed antisceptic. I attended this year with the JEC. They and the JDC both suggested that the attendance was down on last and previous years.

Hopefully, if given the chance, Silverstone will listen to any criticisms and learn from this year. Although as some have suggested for them it was a good event.

[Peter Mallett]

And here's another Delta pic.

[Oneball]

We had a good time and thought the extra stuff on top of the usual bunch of MGBs parked in a field was a good change. The food we had was excellent, Lebanese, pizza and fish and chips, way better than a floppy burger in a bap. We missed a fair bit of Sunday as we left early as I wasn’t well.

We were really miffed about the signs and barriers the organisers had put out. We were in the national pits and turned ours round and invited people in.

The facilities in the competitors camp site were immaculately kept throughout the weekend.

We thought Friday was busier than Saturday weirdly, and as I was looking round the stands on the cooling down lap after the race it looked really quiet.

You’ll never get over Silverstone being a concrete backlot in Northamptonshire that’s the nature of the place. Move the cars from this event to Oulton and it’d be one of the best in the world

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

I was not suggesting for a second the attendance was each day, 450k over a weekend was exactly my understanding. And if you do some simple maths and you know some basics.

Even 400k at let's say 300 quid for all three days is 120 million quid! Minus the hosting fee which I think is between 25 and 30 milion. And then all the other costs, if you are not making a profit there, surely there is something going on!

And that is 300 quid for three days, we all know vast amounts of tickets are more than that, not including corporate.

As I say this is not scientific it is just basic number crunching based on what I know and what is released to the public.

This weekend I did not see a big crowd from the pictures, a few have said it was low. Some people are entertained, some were not. I think you will always find some good and bad in ay event like this.

But the reports here and elsewhere are not massively positive. As I say some people are easily pleased, these days I think that is harder to do!!

You may be number crunching, but you are crunching the wrong numbers. we agree that 400+K is the overall number of attendances over the 4 days? and that the maximum on any one day is maybe 140K ?


In which case the number of people paying the £300 ticket for all-days access isn't going to be 400+K, its going to be 140K or so, plus those paying for the silly money packages. Which rather changes the financial conclusions you reach........

[flatlandsman]

You are of course correct and it's a simple mistake on my part!

But even then, let's take those numbers at face value.

If they say 140k per day that makes their number correct, but that is clearly a slight miscarriage of numbers is that is the same person 3 or 4 times with one payment.

So even if that is the case, we all know that most tickets are somewhere between 3 and 5 hundred pounds, it's hard to put a number up. And we will never know the people who DO pay for each day, maybe as tickets have sold out. At 450 quid a ticket over 3 days that is still 63 million quid. That is a bold estimate.

Throw in, corporate, stand space rental, program sales(minus print about even maybe) parking (utter extortion) their own food, drink, merch. This number is clearly unknown but has to be several million aswell.

Hosting fees 25 million, expenditure on security, buses can't be in the tens of millions I would hope! There are lots of other costs of course but I doubt they equal the hosting fee.

And hey listen I am not blaming them, good business is where you find it and right now hosting an F1 race is good business.

My point is I am not sure a largely amateur race meeting warrants the entry prices for individual days, it does for the weekend, that is a great deal but ONLY because you know how much it is each day!! But I think 150 for three days is a good deal considering what is on and around. Car club members get a great discount as others have said and the venue does a LOT to make that outlay a good deal. but for punters going on one day, I thank the price is way too high.

[Mike Harte]

Thanks, guys, for your support and sorry that the thread has become derailed.

Truth is that it's unlikely that, unless one is a senior officer of the BDRC, that we will know the full financial details of the GP. However, going back in time to when Damon Hill was the president of the club, it was, unfortunately, considered to be a loss leader.

I hope that that is no longer the case. And, hopefully, we can now return to the Classic!

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Soo, the venue makes a profit, which is good. The circuit however, now resembles a housing/trading estate with little or no atmosphere when crowds are medium so the "Festival" fell flat in that respect.

As someone who has attended since 1989(?) and participated in a few along the way, it just seemed antisceptic. I attended this year with the JEC. They and the JDC both suggested that the attendance was down on last and previous years.

Hopefully, if given the chance, Silverstone will listen to any criticisms and learn from this year. Although as some have suggested for them it was a good event.

The auction struggled this year, only 38% of the comp cars sold and those that did were at lower end estimate or less. Around 50% of the main sale cars sold and in a similar pattern, most at lower end estimate or below. Even the automobilia struggled.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

I am very sorry Mike

But if you think the F1 race makes a loss these days you are surely mistaken.

Do the basic math, they pay 25 odd million to Liberty to host, maybe 30, that is one of the cheapest fees.

Even at average prices, you are looking at 400 to 450k people. They are paying even at teh cheapest 350 a head for three days. That is way over 130 million pounds.

They dont get to sell advertising no, but they do make vast sums on ground rent for stands, food etc some of which they take a cut of.

This does also not include the corporate fees that are paid for boxes etc. The parking fees on fans, the no doubt vast sums they make from program sales and their own merch and food sales.

if they are making a loss from all that (and I can tell you they are not) then they are not very good business people.

yes they have immense outlay, security, bins, extra stands, buses, massive extra staff, printing programs, policing for road closures

All that has happened is that they have realised that they are not a sports venue, they are a brand, that brand has to make money all the time, they only really have three big events a year, F1, motoGp and the Classic, so they maximise profit from them.

The running costs of the place are immense hence why they are selling off lots of it for hotels, Porsche they made immense losses with f1 before, and MotoGP relaying track etc, so they HAVE to make it back, they have F1 falling into their lap right now with people so desperate to be there they pay over the odds for tickets.

So it is just business, but please don't think they are making a loss from f1, not anymore.

Looking at the last accounts on companies house for SCL (2021), the overall turnover was £61M and the year end profit was £6.9M. I would imagine their most lucrative thing is actually track hire, the GP circuit was circa £45k per day and operational costs are very low.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

The auction struggled this year, only 38% of the comp cars sold and those that did were at lower end estimate or less. Around 50% of the main sale cars sold and in a similar pattern, most at lower end estimate or below. Even the automobilia struggled.

I was interested in the results for the XJS' since they are becoming more valuable. But I struggled to see where anyone would pay more than £60k for an unregistered 128 miles example. Seems I was right because it and others seeking more than 35k are unsold. The XJR-S looked like a bargain at 34.5k and was the only one sold.

I looked at all of them and apart from the unregistered car and the XJR-S they all had pretty average bodywork, orange peel paint and dents in upper surfaces.

The supposed barn find RS2600 went for its Buy It Now price but it looked a bit suspect to me. The front air dam appeared to be glued or possibly welded on.

[Brynmor]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I was interested in the results for the XJS' since they are becoming more valuable. But I struggled to see where anyone would pay more than £60k for an unregistered 128 miles example. Seems I was right because it and others seeking more than 35k are unsold. The XJR-S looked like a bargain at 34.5k and was the only one sold.

I looked at all of them and apart from the unregistered car and the XJR-S they all had pretty average bodywork, orange peel paint and dents in upper surfaces.

The supposed barn find RS2600 went for its Buy It Now price but it looked a bit suspect to me. The front air dam appeared to be glued or possibly welded on.

They made a huge mistake again of having too many ‘halo’ cars…the McRae rally cars as an example. Very small market for them where invariably it’s existing owners of similar adding to a collection. To have one for sale would have seen mega figures…to have 3-4 was utterly bonkers as there just isn’t the market all at once. There’s also the issue imho of too many lots, the sale rate was similar last year with an obsession of the big ticket stuff.
Bargain of the sale had to be the A35 academy car at £12k ish all in.

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

but it looked a bit suspect to me.

Looks like a MkI bis, the Grp2 body kit is not correct, some hard to source exterior parts missing, lower part of the doors look rusty, interior -seats, dash, steering wheel- in poor condition and so on. Nothing precise about the engine or gearbox… A pristine and perfectly genuine condition RS 2600 makes circa 65 K€ here.

[brands]

A couple of batches from Saturday around Luffield:

[brands]

A gallery from Saturday is online here: https://motorsportintheuk.co.uk/p238155856

[Peter Mallett]

I took a few too.

https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-cjnWZB

[Gerard C]

Thanks brands, much appreciated. Tks, Peter. Dont ask me why but I love the #149. From my armchair couldn't guess so many Corvette's were on track though.

[E.B]

Great pics Brands and Peter. Ta muchly.

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I took a few too.

https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-cjnWZB

More than a few, and lovely shots!

[geordiecriag101]

Eventually got round to sorting out all my trackside vids from this year's Silverstone Festival . I've put them all in a playlist, if anyone interested:

Eventually got round to sorting out all my trackside vids from this year's Silverstone Festival . I've put them all in a playlist, if anyone interested:

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL...uRVK97m69ZUm4o

[delta]

Thanks for posting . Great stuff to watch at lunch time.

[Robin Marriott]

I didn’t attend but will say that in previous years I’ve watched the live stream all day. This year I turned it on and was greeted by modern GT3 cars so switched it rapidly back off again.

I don’t know why they made the change this year but it seemed like an odd mixture of cars that it lost the identity of the event.