[LM24] Le Mans 2005 Entry List [Withdrawals] (merged)

[Bentley03]

Your point about poster sponsorship, Nordic, may go some way to explaining the scenario that played out at the Playstation presentation in Paris a few weeks ago, but I have my doubts.

For the ACO to officially present the 2005 Le Mans poster at that event was, in my opinion, extremely bad PR and sent out entirely the wrong message to the other competitors. Does the ACO not have a duty to show neutrality towards every team participating at Le Mans.

Draw your own conclusions from their actions..........

[Bentley03]

Before I get a pasting for my last post I think I'll back down on this one

I do accept the sponsorship argument and I'm on my way to Confession to receive my Penance........





PS Should I ask Him if he knows anything about that moving bridge?

[SimonXS]

Personaly i think thats the worst poster yet!

Its overly sponsered by them 2 rather rubbish playstation liveried cars. I think on the front there should of been 1 playstion audi or courage, and maybe jotas car as thats livery is cool, and both the aston and vette in the background.

IMO both cars with the playstation sponsership are plain and boring! The Xbox and gulf courage is nicer!

S

[TheNewBob]

The race isn't really about liveries though, is it...

But I do agree that it would have looked better with the third car being of a different team, perhaps an LMP2 - if the poster is to be believed in the way that people are suggesting then do note that LMP2 cars are absent from that poster...

Does have a very French and British feel to it, all the prototypes in the poster being french, the British Aston Martin, the French Larbre 550, and I don't know which team the Porsche belongs to lol - I don't see much reason to read too much out of a simple poster, though...

[Nordic]

Originally Posted by SimonXS

Personaly i think thats the worst poster yet!

S

When compared to the art posters of Dexter Brown and others from the 50's 60's & 70's you are right. But I don't think its any worse than others from recent years.

I hope the airport is aware the Dunlop Bridge is floating over the runway this year.

[kdr]

the official poster is proof of a conspiracy theory? mods can we move this to the f1 forum, this is the kind of stuff they come up with!

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally Posted by Nordic

Does the TEAM JOTA-ZYTEK not count? Why have Champion got two cars on the list? last time I checked they where not French, Have RfH become RfF overnight. How come other British teams like Morgan have have got on the entry list in the past.

Get real, as Graham has said "There is no anti-British sentiment attached to the ACO list there are in fact 15 british entered cars on the list"

No u get real. Do u really beleive that Jota can do a better job with the Zytek at Le Mans than the works Zytek squad? Face facts, the works Zytek entry is a bigger and better operation than the Jota operation, at least so far as far as the Zytek is going. Just look at the results from the LMES.

You do raise a interesting question into my mind though, why did Jota get given a entry over the works Zytek entry? What have Jota done that Zytek havent to get a place at Le Mans this year? Personally I think that Zytek have shown a lot more commitment to the ACO recently than other teams.

[Nordic]

A quick point of fact.

Last years finishing record shows that Creation were the best Zytek team with two 3rd places at the Nürburgring and Spa.

Zytek eng best result was a 4th at Silverstone then came 6th at Monza, skipped the Nürburgring and spa and retired at Le Mans after 167 laps

Jota, a team you seem to dismiss as no hopers, had a best result of 5th at Spa then 6th at Silverstone & 25th at the Nürburgring

Both Creation & Jota completed a full season, thats 4 races in case you did'nt know and Zytek did 1/2 the season + Le Mans

[SALEEN S7R]

No Jota are not "no hopers" as u put it, which btw I never said. They are not however IMO in the same leauge as the works Zytek team. Going on results from this year so far the works Zytek squad is the fastest and best sorted Zytek out there at the moment. Creation are a great team, I have NO PROBLEM with Creation getting a entry for Le Mans this year and I havent said anything regarding Creation not being up to the task. So lets not get side tracked, what I do have a problem with is Jota being choosen over the works Zytek entry. IMO they are not quite on the pace as the works Zytek. Close, but not quite, they dont have the budget that the works Zytek squad has, or the pace if Round 1 of the LMES is anything to go by. They were consistantly the leading Zytek at Spa in both practise, qualifying and the race. Okay so their results in 2004 were a little unlucky, but lets look judge their performances by how they have done THIS year shall we, rather than last year?

Still we are each entitled to our own opinion Nordic.

[I love 04s]

All of you,

Zytek are clearly the fastest team and their preparation is second to none. For christ sake half their team is ex F1 - they know how to set up and keep the car in tip top condition (its like new every race-creation looks like it has just been pulled out of a scrapheap half the time although as you say Saleen, they deserve an entry for their commitment and performance last season ). Zytek have about as much telemetry as Nasa have on their spaceships and they are incredibly prefessional.

Jota and Creation didn't even run telemetry (i think Creation may be running a very basic setup now - which is good.) and are clearly second best to the Zytek squad, there is simply no disputing the fact.

Yes it is incredibly unfair that the Zytek has not got into Le Mans (still might though with the way things are going hopefully!), The ACO's decisions are always very hard to understand and it has happened in the past and will happen again in the future. All we can do is hope that the Zytek still gets its deserved entry.

Therefore lets just wait because news on the grapevine suggests that the ACO are going to make an announcement of some sort within the next couple of days.

Meanwhile lets hope that Zytek go to Mid Ohio and dethrone those boring champion audis - that would be great.

[cybersdorf]

Yes Zytek are the best.

[Fab]

And ACO was wrong.

[Nordic]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

Still we are each entitled to our own opinion Nordic.

I think on the Zytek we agree, they should have been on the list, (however I think Creation may be the better racing outfit ) In fact being fans of sportcars/GT's etc we should remember we agree on far more than it sometimes seems.

I don't agree with slamming the ACO every time the list comes out because we don't think it adds up.

We are not the ones that have to make these hard choices and I think everyone on this fourm would come up with a different list if we where put into that position. Some, like the Zytek Eng seem on face to be obvious but it pays to remember, we are not in the position of having all the facts, dispite what some posters have you believe.

[ss_collins]

Jota not running data aquisition - funny I was under the impression that QunietiQ had developed a special system just for Jota...

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Nordic

I think on the Zytek we agree, they should have been on the list, (however I think Creation may be the better racing outfit ) In fact being fans of sportcars/GT's etc we should remember we agree on far more than it sometimes seems.

I don't agree with slamming the ACO every time the list comes out because we don't think it adds up.

We are not the ones that have to make these hard choices and I think everyone on this fourm would come up with a different list if we where put into that position. Some, like the Zytek Eng seem on face to be obvious but it pays to remember, we are not in the position of having all the facts, dispite what some posters have you believe.

I get very bored of doing so, but in my opinion the ACO fully deserve the slamming they are getting this year for failing to invite the factory Zytek. Unless you can convince me otherwise, I believe it is the ACO alone who don't want the car in the race.

Forget politics, forget LMES appearances, forget the invites for Jota and Creation. That car should be there because the fans want it there (and I include fans of all nationalities, even French!). The fans want it there because they are being deprived of one of the quickest and most exciting prototypes in sportscar racing today. And the fans deserve the right to vent their anger at the ACO because they are the ones who spend their hard earned cash year after year supporting a race for which the ACO are responsible.

Lame excuses made on behalf of the ACO are laughable. There is no excuse. And if the ACO aren't big enough to admit the error and do their best to right a wrong they deserve all the slamming they get.

Those responsible for the ALMS appreciate the importance of the fans and bend over backwards to please them. The ACO on the other hand couldn't give a flying **** about the fans. Shameful!

[archibold]

So why don't Zytek support Jota more fully, with data and a couple of set-up sheets etc ? Costs an awful lot of money to capture this information and not a great deal to share it...

[tblincoe]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

I get very bored of doing so, but in my opinion the ACO fully deserve the slamming they are getting this year for failing to invite the factory Zytek. Unless you can convince me otherwise, I believe it is the ACO alone who don't want the car in the race.

Forget politics, forget LMES appearances, forget the invites for Jota and Creation. That car should be there because the fans want it there (and I include fans of all nationalities, even French!). The fans want it there because they are being deprived of one of the quickest and most exciting prototypes in sportscar racing today. And the fans deserve the right to vent their anger at the ACO because they are the ones who spend their hard earned cash year after year supporting a race for which the ACO are responsible.

Lame excuses made on behalf of the ACO are laughable. There is no excuse. And if the ACO aren't big enough to admit the error and do their best to right a wrong they deserve all the slamming they get.

Those responsible for the ALMS appreciate the importance of the fans and bend over backwards to please them. The ACO on the other hand couldn't give a flying **** about the fans. Shameful!

[I love 04s]

Jota may be running data aquistition, however do not seem to be runnin real time telemetry.

[bernard b]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Forget politics, forget LMES appearances, forget the invites for Jota and Creation. That car should be there because the fans want it there (and I include fans of all nationalities, even French!). The fans want it there because they are being deprived of one of the quickest and most exciting prototypes in sportscar racing today.

to be honest, the Zytek was already one of my favourite last year
so no way it could change now ...

[Tim Northcutt]

Too bad I can't vote for two...because BOTH the Factory Zytek and the TVR's have "earned" the opportunity to compete at Le Mans...

But I voted for the TVRs...for a selfish reason...

I want Zytek to come to Mid-Ohio!!!!

I'll be there and I want to see it in person!!!!!

I also want to see it race on that course...because I think they would give both Dyson and the Audis a great run for their money...

It would help them sell cars here, too.....

[paul-collins]

Originally Posted by I love 04s

Zytek are clearly the fastest team and their preparation is second to none. For christ sake half their team is ex F1 - they know how to set up and keep the car in tip top condition (its like new every race-creation looks like it has just been pulled out of a scrapheap half the time although as you say Saleen, they deserve an entry for their commitment and performance last season ). Zytek have about as much telemetry as Nasa have on their spaceships and they are incredibly prefessional.

Jota and Creation didn't even run telemetry (i think Creation may be running a very basic setup now - which is good.) and are clearly second best to the Zytek squad, there is simply no disputing the fact.

I'm going to have to dispute this on two points:

First, Creation are running (did run) identical telemetry to Zytek.

Second, rough calculations of the data from Spa have shown that the DBA was more than a second faster (per lap) than the Zytek when both cars were racing (under greens).

Creation's dead alternator put them three laps down, and their broken gearbox casing put them out.

Zytek were not "clearly the fastest team." They were in the top 4, which was enough. (Luck is where preparation meets opportunity, right?) This is not to take anything away from their awesome accomplishment. It's just to set the record straight.

[ss_collins]

I believe the QuinetiQ system involved some very advanced telemetry

[paul-collins]

It would be interesting to know. I'm not in touch with anyone from Jota though.

[cmk]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

I believe the QuinetiQ system involved some very advanced telemetry

I certainly remember reading about this when the deal first came about at the outset of the 2004 season. I don't think I've read anything that supports or disputes the reality of the claim since, though.

Thanks paul-collins for pointing out some of the suspect comments made in this thread. Rabid fanboyism over a car is, shall we say, an interesting phenomenon, but not necessarily one that welcomes dispassionate viewing of the facts. There is no doubt that the Essex Invest Zytek was a major oversight when the ACO compiled its list. There are always debateable inclusions and exclusions, some more dramatic than the others. Still, there's no reason to overaggrandize the capability of the works Zytek outfit, or to cheapen the significant capabilities of the Creation and Jota outfits through what amounts to little better than outright lies.

[Bentley03]

In amongst all the various articles on DSC reporting the likes of Creation, Pesca and Oreca testing at Magny Cours, Malcolm has recently posted a brief report on the factory Zytek which is entering it's second day of testing at Magny Cours today. Insignificant news in itself but there is a very strong hint that we may yet see this car at Le Mans in June (as well as Mid Ohio!). Mmm.....