Turn 8 @ Adelaide, What do we do now??

[svall88]

Well the guardrail runs along the ripple strip on the inside of the corner but i think that is how it should be as with it away from the ripple strip would cause more accidents as drivers might end up using it and that could lead to rolls.

[StuiE]

I agree with mac's ideas.

Kerbing on the inside with grass, and a SAFER barrier on the outside.


However, this in conjunction with the GP circuit would be even better, the touring cars as support to F1 didn't seem to stop them running it (the long straight to hard braking), and surely the brakes are even better these days.


I think I'd make for more overtaking, and be relatively safe.

[STEALTHY]

Turn 8 wouldn't be there if using the F1 curcuit.


Would the cars speed be any higher using the GP curcuit? I figure they get close to top speed as it is on the track now, would that extra 10 or 20k's make much of a difference to wrrant needing more run off at the hairpin?

(Shall look for my old F1 Brochure, and see if it lists the top speeds etc like they do for V8s)

[StuiE]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

Turn 8 wouldn't be there if using the F1 curcuit.


Would the cars speed be any higher using the GP curcuit? I figure they get close to top speed as it is on the track now, would that extra 10 or 20k's make much of a difference to wrrant needing more run off at the hairpin?

(Shall look for my old F1 Brochure, and see if it lists the top speeds etc like they do for V8s)

Yeeh I meant the turn that would be before the hairpin if it were the GP circuit (turn 10?), it looks a similar angle to turn 8 on the current circuit.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by StuiE

Yeeh I meant the turn that would be before the hairpin if it were the GP circuit (turn 10?), it looks a similar angle to turn 8 on the current circuit.

I don't think its as long.

Rundle Road is about 500 metres long, whereas bartels road looks to be about 800 metres or so. I'd assume that would lower the speed enough for that bend.

However, that would make the straight about double the length it is as the 500 circuit. As i said before tho, they would be on the limiter like conrod, and they aren't far of it as it is, so would it be that much of a problem for the braking (after 2 hours of racing) to make the hairpin.

[mmciau]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

I don't think its as long.

Rundle Road is about 500 metres long, whereas bartels road looks to be about 800 metres or so. I'd assume that would lower the speed enough for that bend.

However, that would make the straight about double the length it is as the 500 circuit. As i said before tho, they would be on the limiter like conrod, and they aren't far of it as it is, so would it be that much of a problem for the braking (after 2 hours of racing) to make the hairpin.

And the entry speeds to long track turn 10 would be almost the same if not the same as current turn 8. These cars would be entering the two straights at about the same speed and their acceleration capabilities are quite astounding.

Again, I say shift the concrete barriers back to make a "bulb" and place a multi tiered tyre wall wrapped in conveyor belt so it remains "attached" to the concrete barriers

Again my "diagram"

http://www.flickr.com/photos/21694538@N07/2290324789/



Mike

[Woolley]

You may be over-estimating the ability of conveyor belting holding a tyre barrier in place in a high speed shunt, and remember it will need a rebuild after each impact. In addition, bouncing off tyres at an acute angle can cause all sorts of other problems, not least of which is significant debris being thrown around with the possibility of it being pitched into the crowd. It's a solution that works well on slower corners with a high angle of impact, but rarely on fast narrow bends. On a permanent circuit this is often mitigated by distanced from the track and other methods of slowing the vehicle first.

SAFER barriers are a fairly major feat of engineering. I'm only aware of them being fitted on ovals where there is a permanent wall to attach it to. I have doubts that they could be fitted to temporary walls anyway, and while I know it shouldn't be a consideration I imagine the cost would be a significant factor. It's possible that a proper armco barrier in front of the wall could be a reasonable alternative. It really depends on how much deformability/strength is actually required.

Generally the easiest answer is space and the further you can get the wall from the point of impact

There will be solutions. Undoubtedly there will be compromises needed somewhere. Unquestionably it's going to take some serious scientific study and testing and I don't think any of us is qualified to do that. What seems to be a simple solution may be disastrous in practice, and what seems an insurmountable problem may just need a simple tweak. The only thing that seems to be not an option is status quo.

Personally, I think the first corner chicane seems to be extraordinarily dangerous and should also be included in a safety review. The Utes have got away with it twice now, and one wonders how long the luck can hold out when a huge field is barrelling through there at fairly high speed and generaly unsighted.

[Mr_Cool]

If you put in tyre barriers it makes the width of the corner smaller, cars bounce back onto the circuit off tyre walls which means back into the pack of cars, at the speed they're going, when the tyres get hit the repair work would be huge. I've seen a formular ford break a tyre belt and the chains, imagine what a V8 would do.

If the tyre wall is part of the corner and it gets heavily damanged, it becomes delayed because of the safety of the tyre wall

[F J Nedos]

I for one want to see the F1 circuit back. From memory, there seemed to be more room for run off at the turn 10 (or whatever it was called).

I loved the corners where the F1 cars went on and turned left, at the point where the current track turns right onto the longest straight. I have always felt cheated with the shorter cicuit, it lacks character. Also, the longer brabham straight in the F1 circuit will surely lead to more overtaking into the hairpin. A slight rejig of turn 10 to move the apex back and a bit more runoff with no tyre bundles in the middle of the road would work.

The fans missing out on more laps? 66 laps each day is nothing to sneeze at.

If the powers that be do not want to revert to the F1 circuit, I think the only option for turn 8 is to slow that corner down dramatically and ensure the drivers stay away from the current apex of that corner. They would need to engineer a little kink to the left at the end of the straight and make it something like a 2nd or 3rd gear corner. It could be a passing opportunity if its designed correctly. The corner needs to be squared and the wall on the outside after turn 8 to be made a little bit deeper. But this might take away from the glam of a fast corner and promotors might not like that.

But my point is to bring back the F1 cicuit. They'd fit more spectators in that way too, something I saw in a news article which is a desired outcome.

[F J Nedos]

Perhaps my proposed changes to turn 8 can be better explained by some dodgy artwork

Current racing line


Proposed changes to turn 8

[Taz Q2]

Does the possibility of airbags become a consideration, surely with the technology we have these days someone could develop an airbag capable of withstanding enough force, if only to reduce the impact enough to help the cars safety system maintain its integrity & keep a driver safe.

The cost, whatever it is, will never outweigh a humans life.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Taz Q2

Does the possibility of airbags become a consideration, surely with the technology we have these days someone could develop an airbag capable of withstanding enough force, if only to reduce the impact enough to help the cars safety system maintain its integrity & keep a driver safe.

The cost, whatever it is, will never outweigh a humans life.

I know the FIA did look at that, but there were a number of issues they couldn't get their head around. I believe they commissioned an official study about it if I'm not mistaken.

[svall88]

I find F J Nedos idea very interesting.

As said before i sit at turn 8 and personally i havnt want it to go.

But the mods that F J Nedos did are completely plausable as there is the room to move the grandstands back as much as needed.

And as in the picture have them turning in left a bit before a sharper right hand corner forcing the cars to have a slower corner.

Opposed to a chicane which i think would be useless this idea is great.

I would still sit here as it would look like a good overtaking place and then it would be who gets the power down to the weels better for the acceleration and deceleration to turn 9.

I think you should consider sending this to Clipsal 500 and the south Australian motorsport board.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by F J Nedos

Perhaps my proposed changes to turn 8 can be better explained by some dodgy artwork

I like that idea, but on the F1 track.


Someone said the only reason they made the shorter track was because they weren't sure ifit would get much interest. Can anyone confirm that?

If so, it seems they have plenty of interest to use the bigger track.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Taz Q2

Does the possibility of airbags become a consideration, surely with the technology we have these days someone could develop an airbag capable of withstanding enough force, if only to reduce the impact enough to help the cars safety system maintain its integrity & keep a driver safe.

The cost, whatever it is, will never outweigh a humans life.

I am not trying to be sarcastic here, but I doubt whether and air bag would have helped on the weekend, the car hit the wall on the left hand side, it would have to be an awful big airbag, or placed in the centre of the vehicle somehow, without blocking view.

[svall88]

I been having a look around youtube to find how turn 8 has changed thoughout the years.

This video http://youtube.com/watch?v=MylGGYw9EG4 shows how in 2000 the turn was set up very similarily to F J Nedos idea.

So i wonder why they changed it to the current configuration.

Also been looking around at videos of the Mika Hakkinen crash in adelaide and was trying to understand what turn that was on. i know it was brewry corner, it that the one after the second chicane. anyone?

[madman16]

It was the long tracks version of turn 8. Lead onto Brabham straight. Go through the second chicane, turn right at stag hotel then then down a shortish straight.

[noaxetogrind]

Originally Posted by madman16

It was the long tracks version of turn 8. Lead onto Brabham straight. Go through the second chicane, turn right at stag hotel then then down a shortish straight.

Don't think so. Looks like the current track just with a different configuration for turn 8. He does a lap in 1:28 having had to slow down to about 120km/h to get through turn 8.

[madman16]

Sorry, i was talking about Hakkinens crash

[theugsquirrel]

Originally Posted by F J Nedos

Perhaps my proposed changes to turn 8 can be better explained by some dodgy artwork

Current racing line


Proposed changes to turn 8

Terrible idea. That'd just turn it into another boring corner.

[madman16]

The way i see it, if you want to make a slow corner out of it you have to make it so there is a chance to overtake. The problem with this idea is that with a kink before the corner no one will be able to overtake (Eastern Creek anyone)

I know there is no passing there now (except for Floydy in the green hsv. If anyone else was there you know what i mean) but i would rather spectacular and no passing then slow and no passing.

[JustASupporter]

Originally Posted by madman16

I know there is no passing there now (except for Floydy in the green hsv. If anyone else was there you know what i mean) but i would rather spectacular and no passing then slow and no passing.

I'd rather have no deaths

[Average Punter]

Originally Posted by madman16

The way i see it, if you want to make a slow corner out of it you have to make it so there is a chance to overtake.

There is no overtaking at 8 anyway (not by a sensible driver anyway...) so you haven't lost anything.

[theugsquirrel]

Originally Posted by Average Punter

There is no overtaking at 8 anyway (not by a sensible driver anyway...) so you haven't lost anything.

Yes you have. You'd lose a fast, challenging and unique corner. What do people not understand about that?

[theugsquirrel]

Originally Posted by JustASupporter

I'd rather have no deaths

SAFER barriers!
Or alternatively, why don't you watch races at fantastic racing circuits like Ipswich and Winton, I'm sure many people here would prefer to race at utter gems of circuits like those instead of seeing drivers challenged by the circuits they race at. There is risk in motor racing, and that is obvious. There should also be challenge in motor racing circuits.

The Nordschliefe isn't known as the greatest circuit ever because its littered with chicanes wherever theres challenging corners. Talk about kneejerk reactions.