[WEC] BoP. Brilliant or Pants.

[TCT]

The others just stood no chance.

Even cars that had no problem and did everything right ended up 2 laps behind.


An even field should not see domination.
But that's what we got.

[Adam43]

You're right. Toyota dominated. They didn't let the others stand a chance.

The others weren't perfect. They stopped more, or at the wrong time. They had a set up that let the tires go off. Or couldn't set it up to cope with the bumps. Or the drivers weren't so amazingly consistent. All these little things added up to being 0.76% worse. Or 2 laps.

Or they were Peugeot.

Remember those years races when Audi beat others despite having a slower car. Imagine what happens if someone runs like that, but all the cars are pretty equal.

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by TCT

The others just stood no chance.

Even cars that had no problem and did everything right ended up 2 laps behind.


An even field should not see domination.
But that's what we got.

It's not an even field though, and it shouldn't be. You can't have new teams coming in with inadequate preparation, insufficient testing and untested strategies and expect them to immediately beat a team that's been doing this for years.

The cars' potential is equalised. If every team does everything right, they should cross the line together. But if you make errors, you won't reach your potential. If you pick the wrong strategy, you won't reach your potential. If your drivers aren't as good as a rival team's, you won't reach your potential. And sometimes you might just suffer bad luck and not reach your potential.

[TCT]

Even cars that had no problem and did everything right ended up 2 laps behind.

The others just stood no chance due to the BoP they were dealt.

Just look at the lapcharts, the fastest lap charts etc...

If you are fast at any point in the race and "just" make strategical mistakes but are fast, or crash out later on, or wahtever then you should still be up there on the fastest lap chart.
But that's all about Toyota and the others are far behind.

[Adam43]

Let's see if they others can reach their potential. More miles will mean better race pace.

Then we can actually judge if Toyota need BoP.

Thinking you can see now opens us up to knee jerk reactions all the time.

[TCT]

Have you seen the lapcharts?

The Toyota's were in a league of their own, and were just "meant" to win and dominate.

That others couldn't compete for the win was not due to driver errors, team errors, or whatever .. just because the Toyota's were so far ahead on pace.
Even single lap pace.




Just compare with the IMSA race


The #01 Cadillac won't win because the car has issues.
But at least it was fast, and you will find it somewhere near the top of the fastest lap charts.


Such was not the case in the WEC race.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by TCT

Have you seen the lapcharts?

Yes.

Toyota dominated. Consistently much faster.

Compare that to the IMSA race? OK. No team had the advantage as the yellows have kept them all together.

Look at it- after 40 odd minutes of green the #10 built up a 20s lead. That’s about the same (small) advantage. Not the first time in the race either.

[Adam43]

I’m guessing you haven’t seen the lap charts. The winning car spent a lot less time in the pits. The #50 spent nearly 3 minutes longer in the pits than the #7.

That and the metronome consistent running shows what a great job Toyota did. I’d call it a dominant performance.

[TCT]

I have seen them, thank you very much.



No I am talking about the relative performances of the cars.
The Toyota was just way faster.

Anywhere, anytime.


Like a Red Bull in F1. But they don't call that a BoP formula.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by TCT

I have seen them, thank you very much.

I just said what you said back at you!

Have a look at the pit stop times.

Also look at the lap time consistency across the drivers in each car. There is more variation across some of the non Toyotas. Not a surprise as some of these drivers are newer to these kind of cars.

No I am talking about the relative performances of the cars.
The Toyota was just way faster.

Anywhere, anytime.

Not in qualifying! But generally yes, it was quicker. They could cope with any conditions much better.

Like a Red Bull in F1. But they don't call that a BoP formula.

Probably more so, because Toyota had the advantage of two years with the car and racing in the series unlike the others.

Ultimately we have a different understanding of how this works. Your point is that Toyota was dominant. It was! Others are pointing out that BoP does not stop this. BoP just balances the potential. Not the execution.

[TCT]

Time in the pits is irrelevant in what I am saying.


The Toyota was just a quicker car.

Much quicker than every other car.
That has nothing to do with pit stop times.


Even of the Toyota would have spent 3 hours in the pits it would still have been the quickest car out there. By far.

[Gingers4Justice]

For those complaining it was boring, if 3 new manufacturers turned up to the first race and could compete with Toyota’s experience and know-how on their debut, it would feel incredibly artificial.

Give them all time.

[Toyotats03OUS]

Originally Posted by Adam43

You're right. Toyota dominated. They didn't let the others stand a chance.

The others weren't perfect. They stopped more, or at the wrong time. They had a set up that let the tires go off. Or couldn't set it up to cope with the bumps. Or the drivers weren't so amazingly consistent. All these little things added up to being 0.76% worse. Or 2 laps.

Or they were Peugeot.

Remember those years races when Audi beat others despite having a slower car. Imagine what happens if someone runs like that, but all the cars are pretty equal.

I said all of this earlier when I reply to him/her.

And you are absolutely right there is no other clear way to explain it. There are tons of variables that leads a team to be competitive or unbeatable! And Toyota had all of them during the race as opposed to Ferrari had the speed, but lacked the strategy, the driver experience in this type of class, the tire management on their car and list goes on.

[TCT]

Well it's cool if you thought that was a great race.


I don't agree on that and found it rather boring because all except Toyota were just competing for 3rd place.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by TCT

Time in the pits is irrelevant in what I am saying.

In endurance racing? This obvious contributed to the Toyota winning by so much!

The Toyota was just a quicker car.

Yes!

Much quicker than every other car.
That has nothing to do with pit stop times.

The 2 laps win very much has to do with that and the strategy part.

Even of the Toyota would have spent 3 hours in the pits it would still have been the quickest car out there. By far.

Yes it would have been. They nailed it! Completely on top of their car and the circuit.

Another example of how much better they had it is looking at the lap time consistency across the drivers in each car. There is more variation across some of the non Toyotas. Not a surprise as some of these drivers are newer to these kind of cars.

The potential is there for the others, but they need time.

If ACO slowed the Toyota by 0.5s then this would be crazy for BoP. The others need to get to their potential first.

[TCT]

Originally Posted by Adam43

In endurance racing? This obvious contributed to the Toyota winning by so much!

It is irrelevant to see which car is quicker than all other, yes.
That is what I said.



Even if the Toyota would have spent 3 hours in the pits, it was still the quickest car.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by TCT

It is irrelevant to see which car is quicker than all other, yes.
That is what I said.



Even if the Toyota would have spent 3 hours in the pits, it was still the quickest car.

Er, I agree the Toyota was quicker at Sebring

[Matador]

Originally Posted by TCT

It is irrelevant to see which car is quicker than all other, yes.
That is what I said.



Even if the Toyota would have spent 3 hours in the pits, it was still the quickest car.

You sound like a broken record basically screaming for Toyota to be slowed down, when no-one else has managed to sort their cars out properly yet. Can you not comprehend how absurd you sound? They've stuck around for years and worked hard and earned the right to be where they are.


Never mind Toyota has the heaviest car with less power than half the others and the Ferrari and Cadillac can pretty much match them on pace over a lap right?


Pfft.

[Adam43]

To be fair I sounded like the B-side of the broken record. Albeit the side with catchier tune with more bass.

[TCT]

Well that's your opinion.
I think otherwise.



I don't know for sure but broken records don't make any sound anymore over here.
So I don't know how that would sound?


Maybe they do where you live?

[TCT]

Originally Posted by Adam43

To be fair I sounded like the B-side of the broken record. Albeit the side with catchier tune with more bass.

Well the same is true for you of course.
Yawn!


Or do you consider yourself the A-side?

[Adam43]

The broken record refers to when it gets stuck. A little bit broken. It’s a well known saying.
https://grammarist.com/idiom/sound-l...broken-record/

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by TCT

Well the same is true for you of course.
Yawn!


Or do you consider yourself the A-side?

Lighten up. I was making a little joke. I was saying that in the repeating myself I was the same as you.

I even said I was the B-side. Albeit it added the bass thing to be even more silly.

[TCT]

Well it goes both ways.
Or both sides if you prefer



If it's true fro me it is true for you.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by TCT

If it's true fro me it is true for you.

That’s what I said!

So like agreeing with you that the Toyota was faster I agreed I came across as a broken record!

I still have better quality bass though.