[FIA GT] GT1 FIA = GT1 ACO according to Stephane Ratel

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

What engine would they use, if it's actually supposed to be a GT1?

Lotus usually use Toyota engines these days, the road going Evora is suppossed to have a 280bhp-V6, but I doubt that you could tune that one to 600. So they might shoe-horn a Lexus V8 into that car.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Another manufacturer?

At this rate the so called "big four" might very well find themselves on the outside looking in come 2010!

Another thought: Could or would Corvette or Porsche keep someone like Callaway or RUF from fielding their cars in GT1?

Another privateer outfit, not a manufacturer.

Again I wonder why anyone believes these small outfits have the funds to race in a World Championship, even Audi and Peugeot struggle to fund regional series nevermind a World Championship with 1 hour events and no heritage or media profile.

There have also been countless cut price, competitive, GT1's for sale for a number of years, yet those Maserati's, Aston Martin's etc. are sat in museums or collections.

[Purist]

It's hardly unheard of for a dealer to put together a legitimate racing outfit. Champion Racing and Brumos fall into that category. Also, the Penske Porsche 917/30s, aside from Sunoco, had prominent sponsorship from the Porsche+Audi dealer partnership of the time.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by JAG

Another privateer outfit, not a manufacturer.

Yeah, but with a car from a new manufacturer. I think I wanted to type "make" instead of manufacturer originally, dunno why I typed manufacturer.

Again I wonder why anyone believes these small outfits have the funds to race in a World Championship, even Audi and Peugeot struggle to fund regional series nevermind a World Championship with 1 hour events and no heritage or media profile.

If Ratel can get the promoters to shoulder the travel-costs - and he says he can - than this will be a non-issue for the teams.
As for the media profile: FIA GT is much better known than LMS over here in , has a much better TV-package and draws a bigger crowd. Not the least probably thanks to the GTR-racing-sims. Also, FIA-GT is in its 14th (give or take 1 or 2) year of existence, longer than any series with "LM" in its name.

There have also been countless cut price, competitive, GT1's for sale for a number of years, yet those Maserati's, Aston Martin's etc. are sat in museums or collections.

Yeah, but even if you get the car at a discount, the spares will still kill you. Team Modena say that a GT2-season with the Ferrari costs half as much as a GT1-season with the Aston. Few Customers of the Aston were ever especially happy with the way Prodrive treated them. The new GT1s are suppossed to be much closer to the costs of a GT2-campaign.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Purist

It's hardly unheard of for a dealer to put together a legitimate racing outfit. Champion Racing and Brumos fall into that category. Also, the Penske Porsche 917/30s, aside from Sunoco, had prominent sponsorship from the Porsche+Audi dealer partnership of the time.

All of the above raced factory developed cars, what we have here are small racing outfits building cars.

The WRC and WTCC is fought between major manufacturer's, the FIA GT1 Championship will be a battle between Matech, Reiter etc., any World Championship tag for the victor holds little value unless said teams are up against Porsche, BMW, Corvette, Ferrari etc., manufacturer's which right now hold greater value in winning Le Mans, LMS, ALMS and the Nurburgring 24hrs.

Without the prestige and media/fan draw, I'm wondering how Ratel can fund everything, and whether race promoters will actually renew deals once they see the reality of the situation.

If he pulls it off great, but right now I'm wondering if it will just be the regular FIA GT series with half a dozen new cars, and not really what many expect.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by JAG

All of the above raced factory developed cars, what we have here are small racing outfits building cars
The WRC and WTCC is fought between major manufacturer's, the FIA GT1 Championship will be a battle between Matech, Reiter etc., any World Championship tag for the victor holds little value unless said teams are up against Porsche, BMW, Corvette, Ferrari etc.,

It's not like Corvette, Aston or Ferrari do their developement of their GTs in house, though. P&M, Prodrive or Michelotto might be bigger names than Reiter or Matech, but they are still no part of GM, Aston or Ferrari. So where's the difference? People will see a Ford or a Lambo on the grid and 99% will have no idea who developed the car.

manufacturer's which right now hold greater value in winning Le Mans, LMS, ALMS and the Nurburgring 24hrs.

Well, take a look at the thread-title! These cars will be able to win in LMS, ALMS and Le Mans. And finish ahead of Porsche, Ferrari etc.

Without the prestige and media/fan draw, I'm wondering how Ratel can fund everything, and whether race promoters will actually renew deals once they see the reality of the situation.

Again, who says no prestige, no fan draw? FIA GT at Oschersleben draws significantly better crowds than LMS at the Nürburgring, and that's without Audi and Peugeot giving away a boatload of tickets.

If he pulls it off great, but right now I'm wondering if it will just be the regular FIA GT series with half a dozen new cars, and not really what many expect.

I think his plan is pretty ambitious, but I also think Ratel has built a few failsafes into this plan. He plans races on five continents, but he needs three for World Championship status. So even if Kyalami and Australia fail he'll still have a World Championship. They already were at Argentina and the GT3-season finale is at the Gulf, I think these two are pretty safe.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a GT2 class in the World Championship for a while longer than Ratel plans, but again, this would not be the end of the series.

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Another manufacturer?

At this rate the so called "big four" might very well find themselves on the outside looking in come 2010!

I don't see anthing there to indicate that this is a GT1 project

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Yeah, but with a car from a new manufacturer. I think I wanted to type "make" instead of manufacturer originally, dunno why I typed manufacturer.


If Ratel can get the promoters to shoulder the travel-costs - and he says he can - than this will be a non-issue for the teams.
As for the media profile: FIA GT is much better known than LMS over here in , has a much better TV-package and draws a bigger crowd. Not the least probably thanks to the GTR-racing-sims. Also, FIA-GT is in its 14th (give or take 1 or 2) year of existence, longer than any series with "LM" in its name.


Yeah, but even if you get the car at a discount, the spares will still kill you. Team Modena say that a GT2-season with the Ferrari costs half as much as a GT1-season with the Aston. Few Customers of the Aston were ever especially happy with the way Prodrive treated them. The new GT1s are suppossed to be much closer to the costs of a GT2-campaign.

There is no FIA race in N. America, but it would be nice if a series fired up over where at the least the cars would be similar enough that depending on number boys working, in six to twelve hours in a garage, one could adapt the car between series, in case the FIA boys ever get over here.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

It's not like Corvette, Aston or Ferrari do their developement of their GTs in house, though. P&M, Prodrive or Michelotto might be bigger names than Reiter or Matech, but they are still no part of GM, Aston or Ferrari. So where's the difference? People will see a Ford or a Lambo on the grid and 99% will have no idea who developed the car.

It's not who develops the car, but who is funding it.

A World Championship takes big bucks to operate, I simply cannot see Reiter, Matech etc. filling the void a manufacturer like Seat, BMW, Ford, Citroen etc. bring to the WTCC and WRC. If the FIA GT1 series has World Championship prestige and is not just a name tag, I'd expect drivers such as McNish, Kristenson, Bourdais etc to be in the leading cars, not as I suspect your regular FIA GT pro and pay drivers.

It's the marketing and manufacturer push that brings in the fans, not cool cars. If that was the case most half decent sportscar events would be drawing huge crowds.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by JAG

It's not who develops the car, but who is funding it.

A World Championship takes big bucks to operate, I simply cannot see Reiter, Matech etc. filling the void a manufacturer like Seat, BMW, Ford, Citroen etc. bring to the WTCC and WRC. If the FIA GT1 series has World Championship prestige and is not just a name tag, I'd expect drivers such as McNish, Kristenson, Bourdais etc to be in the leading cars, not as I suspect your regular FIA GT pro and pay drivers.

It's the marketing and manufacturer push that brings in the fans, not cool cars. If that was the case most half decent sportscar events would be drawing huge crowds.

You put too much value in the title "world champioship."

It does not matter who is driving or who sponsors the cars; if the series gains importance, other matters will fall in place.
Form follows function.

[Bramzel]

I think companies like Reiter and Matech, who have racing as their core-business, are more reliable to build a championship on than the manufacturers who'll pull back whenever they don't feel like racing anymore.

[Bernard Bram]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Another thought: The proposed race-format sounds a lot like GT-racing for the ADD-generation and sim-racers. Maybe not a bad idea...

Sorry, only 3h simracing over here.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

I think companies like Reiter and Matech, who have racing as their core-business, are more reliable to build a championship on than the manufacturers who'll pull back whenever they don't feel like racing anymore.

You certainly have a point there.... but, Reiter and Matech cannot, and will not ,bring the funding/advertising/sponsorship/visibility to a series that the manufacturers (as transient as they may be) would.

The key to the public, will be having that panache, that only comes from the dollars the manufacturers will spend.

[juicy sushi]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

You put too much value in the title "world champioship."

It does not matter who is driving or who sponsors the cars; if the series gains importance, other matters will fall in place.
Form follows function.

that's a chicken and egg argument. series only gain importance when they become considered worthwhile, and that only comes when there is respect accorded to winning the championship. that only comes when there ARE well known talents driving, or teams competing. FIA GT1 as mooted by ratel wouldn't have that...

[pitviper]

Possibly, but sportscar racing, possibly more than any other form of motorsport, relies less on the familiarity and adoration of the teams and drivers, and more on the cars, and marquees themselves, especially with multiple drivers per car. Just because you might not have Joest running your Audi R8 GT1 team doesn't mean that people all over the world wouldn't love to watch the series anyway, simply because it is their favorite cars going up against each other.

We are living in an increasingly "video-game" based world, and the generation that will form the future of sportscar racing's fanbase has grown up piloting "driverless" cars from their favorite brands against each other. I think that as long as the cars are sexy (and not completely neutered technologically!), and the racing close, on awesome tracks across the globe, that it will be a success (economy notwithstanding).

pit

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by juicy sushi

that's a chicken and egg argument. series only gain importance when they become considered worthwhile, and that only comes when there is respect accorded to winning the championship.

You are correct up to this point.

[JAG]

Cool cars alone don't bring in the spectators, it's the manufacturer backing that markets the cars and the series to the wider public.

Le Mans had pretty cool cars in '94, but the lack of manufacturer backing, major teams, star drivers etc. meant it was all very flat.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by JAG

Cool cars alone don't bring in the spectators, it's the manufacturer backing that markets the cars and the series to the wider public.

Le Mans had pretty cool cars in '94, but the lack of manufacturer backing, major teams, star drivers etc. meant it was all very flat.

If one is one that goes to racing because of the automobiles, the only thing that would be bad is a lack of variety.

If one goes for the holly-wood style glitz, hero worship, then the cars do not matter.

Road racing grew and thrived on the former, not the latter.

Open wheel tried the latter, did not do too well.

[pitviper]

Completely agree!

And to add, the "hero worship" aspect is always much harder when there is not just one driver in the car!

[pitviper]

After watching this video... sheesh, is it just me that thinks that a GT1 World Championship (or at LM) should really look like this? Do yourself a favour and watch this in HD... just awesome (again, IMHO)

pit

http://speedhunters.com/archive/2008...ssan-gtr.aspx#

[juicy sushi]

Originally Posted by pitviper

After watching this video... sheesh, is it just me that thinks that a GT1 World Championship (or at LM) should really look like this? Do yourself a favour and watch this in HD... just awesome (again, IMHO)

pit

http://speedhunters.com/archive/2008...ssan-gtr.aspx#

the GT1 world championship wouldn't look like that though. the GT-R being entered in GT1 is essentially a GT2 level car with the proper motor taken out, and another motor substituted.

also, the Super GT cars aren't really GT cars for me. they're great cars, but the complete absence of any relationship to the basic production car means they're not GT cars in the same way that DTM and NASCAR machines aren't touring cars.

in addition, the class would be less economically viable than the current GT1 class. Super GT GT500 cars are factory built and run silhouette cars which require healthy LMP budgets to campaign. given how clearly the money isn't there for current style GT1, i don't see how SuperGT rules would make things any better...

[JAG]

Originally Posted by pitviper

After watching this video... sheesh, is it just me that thinks that a GT1 World Championship (or at LM) should really look like this? Do yourself a favour and watch this in HD... just awesome (again, IMHO)

pit

http://speedhunters.com/archive/2008...ssan-gtr.aspx#

Those cars are great but it's effectively an LMP2 coupe, in fact that GT500 engine would be ideal for LMP1 in 2011.

I'd also love to see the GTR in GT2 with the current cars V6, either turbo or non turbocharged.

[Mal]

Good Article on Sportscarpros:

http://www.sportscarpros.com/cottonb...on/default.htm

Last sentance is particularly interesting in that it states that Maserati are 'evaluating' the GT1 world Championship

[PorscheFanNo1]

Good article indeed. So Ascari, Maserati/Ferrari/FIAT and Audi for the other 3 seems likely? Wouldnt say no to that!

[juicy sushi]

that's not what the article said though. ratel hoped that ferrari would consider the championship, maserati said they were "evaluating it" and there's nothing really to indicate audi are coming.

i don't really see much reason for ferrari to want to participate. they build cars to sell to private teams for profit. that model doesn't fit ratel's gt1. audi seems pretty committed to the ACO as well...