My Tracks

[mac]

You've got a good point there, Lee. I never looked at it that way. However, if that hairpin were to be turned into a passing spot, it would be best to change the configuration of the hairpin as well.

The reasoning behind that particular section is that I think one of the toughest challenges for a driver is turning, braking and downshifting all at the one time, whilst flicking the car from side to side.

[Lee Janotta]

Yeah, it'd work best as an increasing-radius corner. Decreasing radius, you _can_ pass through, but yes, they're extremely nervewracking for all the drivers... You never know when the guy on the inside is going to understeer and possibly take you both out.

I'd push the apex back a little further, bring the line of the exit inwards, and create a little bit of a sweep on the exit.

[Lee Janotta]

Okay, here's my new track. Details forthcoming, just wanted to get it posted right now.

And yes, I know it looks like Poncono with an overgrown Mont Tremblant attached...

[Lee Janotta]

Okay, here it is: Bremerton Motor Speedway, located near Bremerton, Washington, US.

Here's the plot of land I had an eye towards when designing this. Club races are currently on a strange little track defined by obstacles on the southern runway of that airport.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp...d&click=center

[Lee Janotta]

I've lightened the areas of track not used for the GP course, BTW... The track can be run in several different configurations, but this one is the fastest and longest.

It runs counter-clockwise, like all my tracks. The start-finish is in the middle of the pit straight.

Turn 1 is a monster. Only 5 degrees of banking on this corner, it's a huge test of grip. It leads onto a long straight, then into turn 2, wich has 35 degree banking. Most cars will have to brake going into this turn.

Shortly after exit, it's off the oval with a quick right-left combo, then a lazy right, following by a medium-speed left. These are the esses, little elevation change here.

Exiting turn 5, there's a short squirt down a straight, downhill, then into a tight right-hander. Not much runoff here. Possibly passing spot.

A medium length straight here into another passing zone at turn 7, an almost right-angle right-hander. After this, there's a flat-out curve to the left, then braking for the medium-speed turn 9. This exit leads into a super-tight hairpin... Cars'll be slowed to about 40mph here.

Exiting the turn 10 hairpin, the cars enter the fastest portion of the track. Uphill through the _long_ leftward curve that is turn 11, accelerating the whole way. At the end of this turn, the track reaches it's highest point. Turn 12 is a kink to the left, which takes a lot of courage to do flat out. Flat corner right after a dip.

Another straight, reaching top speed here, before braking just a bit heading into a left-right combo, turns 13 and 14, based a bit on Beckets. Very easy to go off here. Passing zone if you've got the courage.

Turn 15 is a wide hairpin, first decreasing then increasing radius. Lowest point on the track.

Turn 16 is taken flat, going uphill into the longest straight, which itself leads into turn 17, a slightly uphill increasing radius hairpin leading back onto the oval. Good passing opportunity.

Turn 17 is the turn from hell, with 50 degree banking. The G-forces _will_ cause the cars to bottom out if they take it flat.

I'm not sure how big it about... Somewhere between 3.5 and 4.5 miles.

Comments?

[Lee Janotta]

Bremerton, I should probably mention, was picked because it's the only place within an hour of Seattle, Tacoma and Olympia where you could possibly find a plot of land big enough to hold a track like this.

[mac]

Another monster track, Lee. That would be a lot of fun to drive. Very fast in spots. The run from turn 10 to turn 15 would be scary.

The only differences I would make, would be to make the final turn more gradual, and faster. Thus making for a faster run onto the main straight. There's no real reason for it to be so tight, as it's not really a passing spot. I'd then make the straight between 1 & 2 longer, and make turn 2 a bit tighter. Almost like turn 1 at Rio, except a little slower, creating a better passing spot.

You don't like short tracks, do you Lee?

[mac]

My latest is Piper. It's one I quite like.

[mac]

Piper's got a good mix of high-speed, medium-speed, low-speed, uphill, downhill and flat turns. It features up to 4 passing spots.

The main straight is flat for the whole length. Turn 1 is roughly 90 degrees (maybe slightly tighter). It goes to the left and is the first passing spot. From the apex, the track begins uphill.

It continues uphill through the medium speed, long right-hand turn 2.

There is a short shute down to turn 3. Halfway down this shute, the track begins downhill. Turn 3 is a pretty tight right. At the apex the track flattens out a little. The exit of 3 begins the flat-out blast down to turn 6.

The track remains slightly downhill through the high speed, left-right turn 4. Between 4 & 5 the track completely flattens.

Turn 5 is another flat-out turn. This is flat and goes to the left. On the exit of turn 5 the track drops and the track goes quickly downhill for a short period (enough for bikes to regularly lift the front wheel). The track goes back to flat before to long for the rest of this straight.

Turn 6 is a tough passing spot, but it's possible. It is a medium speed, 90 degree right. This is a flat turn, and on the exit is a slight kink to the left.

Halfway down the straight between turn 6 & 7, the track begins an uphill climb.

Turn 7 is a bit like Eau Rouge. It is FAST, uphill and left-right-left. It's more difficult to go flat-out through, but still possible. The track goes uphill through this whole complex. Shortly after the final part of turn 7 the track flattens out. For the remainder of the straight.

At the end of this straight is turn 8. This is a very tight right hairpin. It is flat, and a good spot to pass.

Turn 8 is immediately followed by another similar hairpin to the left (turn 9).

Immediately after 9 is a medium-speed, 90 degree, flat right - turn 10.

In the short part between 10 & 11 the track begins downhill. It continues downhill through the fast, right-hand turn 11.

Turn 12 is an even faster right. The track continues downhill through this turn. Turn 12 leads onto another straight. Halfway down this straight, the track flattens out again.

At the end of the straight is a tight, left-right chicane. This is flat and a very good passing spot.

Out of the turn 13 chicane is a fast, uphill left - turn 14.

14 is immediately followed by 15. Turn 15 is a long, fast-ish right. In the middle of the corner, the track goes from slightly uphill to slightly downhill.

15 is followed by 16, which is a medium-fast, double-apex left. This corner is flat.

Out of 16 is a short shute to turn 17. 17 is a downhill, fast-ish, left-right esses section.

Shortly after 17 is the final turn. Turn 18 is another tight right turn. The approach to 18 is downhill. And at the apex, the track flattens out for the blast back down the main straight.

[mac]

I forgot this one.

[Lee Janotta]

Sure, I like short tracks... For club racing.

But for an international series, especially a Grand Prix, nothing short of 2.5 miles will do... And more than 3 is certainly preferable.

That corner on the oval was really just experimental... But I've always wanted to see a corner with sickenly high banking... Almost vertical.

I've gone ahead and fixed the corner, widened the oval, added a drag strip and kart course, re-designed the infield road course (for track days and schools), and added a large tarmac runoff at turn one, pushing the wall back against the trees, protected by tire barriers. A corner like that, I realize requires room for the drivers to make mistakes.

No banking on the runoff, though, so there's no advantage to be gained running over it.

[Lee Janotta]

Dammit... Forgot to attach the image.

[Lee Janotta]

Hmm... _If_ they can take turn 7 flat, then that's not a bad track, Mac... First impressions, though, it does look a little busy.

Your tracks have got a _much_ better chance of ever being built than mine, though...

You built grandstands for yours.

[mac]

They can take turn 7 flat - but it is not easy to do so. I do like busy tracks. Anyone can go fast in a straight line. The challenge is optimizing the speed through corners. The only purpose for straights is to provide overtaking opportunities.

[Lee Janotta]

True, true...

But I always try to design tracks that drivers will enjoy. For that you need lots of rythym, challenging corners, fast straights, and occaisonally during a lot a break from having to constantly fight the car... Just a small section where you consider your next move.

Looking from that perspective, you've got to break up the corners a bit... One of the worst things about the Hungaroring is that you're _always_ braking, turning, and accelerating out of slow corners.

But if you look at a driver's circuit like Brands Hatch or Spa, the track tries to throw in everything with a _minimal_ number of corners. Every turn counts on those tracks. Each is so special people even bothered to give them names.

The purpose of straights isn't just to provide passing zones... They're there to get the cars going FAST! That makes entry to the next turn all the more challenging.

That's just _my_ philosophy on track design.

[mac]

Ah, you want a philosophy on track design.

Mine is that no track should appear to be DESIGNED. It should appear as if it was just a normal piece of road (the actual track), and some people decided to have a race on it.

This is how I base my tracks.

I guess I pen them the way I enjoyed driving. You will very rarely find a straight of mine without a passing spot of some sort at the end. Sometimes there's a fast turn in the middle of them, but there has to be at least 2 passing places on most of my tracks.

The fact that there is lots of corners on a lot of my tracks promotes rhythm in driving. There is nothing worse than short straight-corner-short straight-corner etc. You just can't get a rhythm.

[Lee Janotta]

Originally posted by mac
Mine is that no track should appear to be DESIGNED. It should appear as if it was just a normal piece of road (the actual track), and some people decided to have a race on it.

Ah.... But tracks that _were_ based on public roads were usually very straight and fast affairs, i.e. Spa, Rouen, or the original Watkins Glen.

http://www.shanepitkin.com/velocity/...cuits_spa.html

(I thought Jacky Ickx set that lap record in a Porsche 917)

http://www.shanepitkin.com/velocity/...its_rouen.html

http://www.shanepitkin.com/velocity/...tkinsglen.html

Plus they were _big_.

I guess it does come down to the way we like to drive ourselves. I'm a late-braker (why do commentators keep calling Takuma Sato the last of the late brakers? They called Michael Andretti that before him, and there _will_ be more)... I love really fast, hard corners, panic stops, constant-radius or increasing-radius corners... Areas where you can make up massive amounts of ground on a driver with less courage. And I guess our rythyms are radically different.

And I just try to leave chicanes out altogether. It's enevitable someone else will come along and add them later.

[mac]

This week's track is the A1-Ring. The A1-Ring is an OK track, IMO. But, these are the changes that I would make in order to make it better.

Now, I don't know anything about the surroundings of the A1-Ring, so I don't know whether these alterations are possible. Not to mention the cost of it, but I reckon this would be nice.

The run from the start line all the way through turn 1, down the straight and through turn 2 remains exactly the same.

The straight between turns 2 & 3 has been straightened, and lengthened by quite an amount. At around where turn 3 was, there is now a left kink (the new turn 3).

The straight continues quite a way after the kink, to turn 4. A tight, right hairpin. It is a very good passing opportunity.

Out of turn 4 is another straight. This is shorter, and leads to turn 5. Turn 5 is a very fast, double apex right.

Turn 5 is immediately followed by a very fast left - turn 6.

The new track rejoins the track at turn 7 (the old turn 5). This turn has been opened up, and is a bit quicker than the old turn.

The run down from the exit of turn 7, through turns 8 & 9 is exactly the same as the previous run (formerly turns 5, 6 & 7).

Shortly after turn 9, a new, fast, left-right esses has been added (turns 10 & 11). Turn 11 is slightly tighter than turn 10.

This new esses section has the benefit of opening up the old turn 8, and making what is now turn 12, a fair bit faster.

The run from the exit of turn 12, through the final turn and over the start finish line is left exactly the same.

What do people think about this?

[Jordi]

OK, this is my next track, Twin-Loop.

The name's obvious for the two loops.

Turn 1 is a decreasing radius corner which ends up being a 200º turn, slow. I'd say it's a half-passing place. It goes uphill with the track crossing just above the end of the pits.

Turn 2 is just a copy of Degner corner in Suzuka. Decreasing too, but a little faster.

Turn 3 is the 360º decreasing fast turn, downhill. It leads to Turn 4, an open hairpin which may be a passing spot.

Then come the Esses, three fast corners.

Turn 6 is a very fast corner which leads to a chicane, Turn 7, the most prominent passing spot on the track. It's like first corner at Monza but reversed.

Then comes turn 8, another long sweeping decreasing radius corner, important for a fast run at the home straight.

What do you think?

[Jordi]

oops the track

[Lee Janotta]

Hmm... Y'know Mac, I think that'd actually help!

More speed into that hairpin, would be excellent outbraking there.

Construction might be a problem, though... Where you'd put that extension, there's a _big_ uphill rise, and you'd have to cut down an awfull lot of old-growth forest.

Still, I gotta make my own suggestions on this one, being I've got a really emotional attachment to the track. How about this?



Maybe without the chicane right after the pits.

Okay, all joking aside, here's what I'd really like to see: A compromise between the old and the new, taking the best of both.

And yes, this is feasible... Nothing's been built on the old portions of the track, it's just a lot of abandoned tarmac separated from the rest of the circuit by gravel traps and Armco. I'd repave the Dr. Tiroch Kurve at 12 degrees, though, to make it faster and more like the Boschkurve... Which while I _love_ that turn, I wouldn't bring back because I'd rather have the passing zone created by the Gösser Kurve.

[Lee Janotta]

Jordi... Gods man! That's a _wild_ track!

As a design exercise, I _love_ it! Well, except for that chicane on the backstraight. But you know how I feel about chicanes...

The esses and backstraight are great, but I gotta tell you, all those decreasing-radius corners are gonna kill any passing, and make it a real task just to stay on the track!

[mac]

Jordi, I know you don't mind me saying this, but I reckon that would be a ******* of a track to drive.

Lee, my goal was to make turn 3, now turn 4, into an even better passing place. Then create a faster, more complex, more enjoyable infield section that would require the driver to achieve a good rhythm.

Personally, I don't think the old track adds much to the A1-Ring. Turn 1 would be faster, and more enjoyable. But, in effect you are removing 2 fine passing spots.

I also wanted to leave the last corner exactly as is, because I believe that is one of the toughest challenges in the season, to actually get right.

[Lee Janotta]

Your mods were really quite good, Mac... I'm just very sensative about that particular track. In it's day, it was just about fastest, most mind-numbingly strenous track on the schedule. The only thing wrong with it was the lack of any passing opportunities. Now it's got plenty, but only by virtue of being a _horribly_ designed Tilke hatchet job of a track. It's character has been changed completely.

As for the last corner, I just plain don't like having corners where the idea is to make the drivers overshoot the exit and go off.

[mac]

It's not designed to make the drivers go off. It is just a challenge to get right. Personally, I think drivers should be challenged with difficult corners, where the best drivers flourish.