Isotta Fraschini Hypercar: Is it all over?

[Gingers4Justice]

I think given the quality of their drivers, both the pace and reliability of the car with so little development is remarkable. I wonder if a 9X8 or even a 963 with so little track time and similar drivers would be much closer if they were starting from scratch this year.

[TF110]

They probably don't have the funds for shipping a car to COTA for the test. Alpine more or less said this about their car.

[flatlandsman]

Plus with Alpine they admitted the engine is a weak link, doing a test merely means they have to rebuild another one and take more miles out of it, I think they have basically decided this year is a test until we can get this engine issue sorted.

Sadly with less Euro races this is a huge deal for teams, if the ACO only really want people who pay for rounds over and above everything else other than Spa and LM, then this might happen a lot more for smaller teams like Isotta, Alpine and Vanwall in the past.

[chernaudi]

Sadly the FIA are involved (though IMO no where near to the point the ACO is) in running the series, and the FIA insist that an international series has to race on at least 3 continents to get the "World Championship" moniker from them.


If the ACO ditches that and goes back into being a Euro-centric championship, it'd just be a re-hash of the old Le Mans Series/current European Le Mans Series, just without the current ELMS's emphasis on privateer teams with gentleman drivers in the top class.


Also, the ACO and FIA reserve the right to charge teams a significant fee (I don't know what it is now, but in the early years of the WEC's revival it was about $35,000 USD) to skip races for reasons other than what was considered force majure. Of course in 1989-92 it was a quarter of a million USD fee to do that back then.


IMO, a more fair system would be what IMSA did for the ALMS in 2001 where you could drop up to 2 races from your season score without penalty or it effecting your championship run, to take pressure off teams running/having to run the pre-Le Mans European rounds that year.

[Adam43]

Anyway, Isotta Franschini…

[Adam43]

Supporting the driver comments, at least on the race pace part.

Similar to previous races. This time 1.5s seconds. A bit of different circumstances influencing it.

I suspect that 1.5s off is pretty good for a silver, but still silver.

Here are the Practice Average Lap time

Rank	Car	Fastest	Top 5	Top 10	Top 20	Laps
1	Jean-Karl VERNAY (P) Isotta Fraschini 11	1:26.965	1:27.662	1:28.168	1:28.842	45
2	Antonio SERRAVALLE (S) Isotta Fraschini 11	1:27.346	1:27.611	1:28.295	1:29.420	35
3	Carl Wattana BENNETT (S) Isotta Fraschini 11	1:27.743	1:28.753	1:29.250	1:30.273	35

Here are the Race Average Lap time

Rank	Car	Fastest	Top 10	Top 20	Top 40	Laps
1	Jean-Karl VERNAY (P) Isotta Fraschini 11	1:26.953	1:27.897	1:28.583	1:29.314	82
2	Carl Wattana BENNETT (S) Isotta Fraschini 11	1:29.617	1:30.022	1:30.334	1:30.908	67

Vernay had the advantage of the early laps (nice warm tyres, but not warm and no traffic) - as we have seen with everyone.

Obviously only two drivers.

[Mike E]

Farewell then, Isotta? Or can it be saved?

https://www.dailysportscar.com/2024/...te-effect.html

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Mike E

Farewell then, Isotta? Or can it be saved?

https://www.dailysportscar.com/2024/...te-effect.html

COLIN KOLLES WHERE ARE YOU?

[flatlandsman]

That is such a bloody shame.

[J Jay]

Bah. This was always likely given Isota's inability to turn interest into investment, but it's still a shock to see it come relatively early in the car's development cycle.


With the factory-backed cars becoming quicker, more reliable and their teams being more experienced, the barrier for entry is realistically too high for privateers at this point.

[v8supes]

Shame, did kinda get these vibes though from the driver line up change. I do wonder IF the two spots on the grid for next year can be filled.

I think this is the end of non “manufacturer” designed & built cars in the class. These guys obviously spent a lot of money and be put in a lot of work but couldn’t get much in return. All the more reason why other manufacturers need to step up and make their cars available to customers.

[Gerard C]

Shame.

[Graham Goodwin]

https://www.dailysportscar.com/2024/...te-effect.html

[tomcug]

Originally Posted by Mike E

Or can it be saved?

Nope. "there are no longer any conditions to continue the partnership with the French team Duqueine" probably means they don't have cash to pay them. Also no way they can sell it to customers now, with 2 extra slots any serious competitor will be calling Porsche. Race-winning car, very consistent around different tracks vs underdeveloped privateer effort, simple choice. Shame but seems the Isotta effort is done.

[chernaudi]

One also has to assume that two 963s are now on the market for either the WEC or IMSA now that Jota are going to Cadillac, though there's suggestions too that Mercedes-Benz/AMG might try and get their GT3 car on the WEC grid, due to a spot opening up (though for GT3 the ACO do give priority for teams who run makers' cars that already are competing in Hypercar/GTP).

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

One also has to assume that two 963s are now on the market for either the WEC or IMSA now that Jota are going to Cadillac, though there's suggestions too that Mercedes-Benz/AMG might try and get their GT3 car on the WEC grid, due to a spot opening up (though for GT3 the ACO do give priority for teams who run makers' cars that already are competing in Hypercar/GTP).

Jota does NOT own the cars, the owners aren't likely to sell them just because they aren't entered in the series. They were likely purchased to get pedigree and sold on later as an investment

[tomcug]

That's true but Porsche said they can make more cars for 2025 if necessary.

[hondafan37]

Proton eyeing second car in WEC

https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/p...imsa/10635486/

[veeten]

Just watching the live feed from Formula Jonah about the news, looks like they are only shutting down for the rest of this season. Not surprised about the money issues, but if they can get that rectified by January, then they will be back for the new season.

Just another example that the life's blood of motorsport is money. Checks are fine, but direct deposit is always welcome.

[chernaudi]

I think IF are done unless they can sell the program to someone else or someone with deeper pockets comes along. But as posed above, why do that when you can by a Porsche 963 or two, when they're already racing, are a proven commodity, and have major OEM/manufacturer support.


Yes, the ACO and even IMSA to a degree do favor OEMs and such, largely because of how much money, marketing and activation they can bring to the WEC and the Weathertech Championship (or the current iteration of the IMSA GT Championship if you prefer), but it's been that way for the ACO since 2006 when Audi returned with their factory program and announcement of Peugeot's program for the following year, IMSA with the ALMS at about the same time, and even Grand Am realized that was an issue during the second half of it's period of existence.


The private teams will be there (if the sanctioning body doesn't tick them off enough that they go somewhere else or just shut down for lack of interest), but they don't have the notoriety of the OEMs and such.


Granted, at least IMO Porsche are doing things the right way by not just having a factory team, but also customer teams, which Audi Sport also tried to do as well in the R8 days.

[veeten]

The situation that happened with Duqueine feels like the same that was going to happen with Vector Sport, which was why they switched in the start.

Well, we'll just have to see who IF will be working with for next year.

[flatlandsman]

I think Vector could see the writing on the wall early doors which is why they dumped it. it is a huge shame, as the car I think has potential to maybe not win but be decent, imagine if they could get on terms with Peugeot, I think any fan would enjoy that!!

I think it like Vanwall will die sadly, I doubt any GOOD team like Joest or someone will come in, they will only get something similar to what has run it already, there is always hope, but it only continues with a team that is prepared to invest considerably to develop, like a Glick did for years.

Why would you do that when you can lease other cars that are quicker.

We also do not know the real potential of the car which might be its saving grace, one of the best GT teams in the world has not been able to make the BMW do much, because maybe that car is inherently not that great, we don't really know how good the IF is due to the budget and drivers, I personally think it could beat Peugeot with the right drivers and a decent winter dev program! But I doubt that happens sadly.

[tomcug]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

We also do not know the real potential of the car which might be its saving grace, one of the best GT teams in the world has not been able to make the BMW do much, because maybe that car is inherently not that great, we don't really know how good the IF is due to the budget and drivers, I personally think it could beat Peugeot with the right drivers and a decent winter dev program! But I doubt that happens sadly.

Maybe it could, maybe not, certainly not with two silvers and very thin testing/development budget. Unfortunately that's a major issue for small players like this, if you want to sell cars, you have to advertise them properly first but you simply got no cash to do that. Similar thing happened with Ginetta's LMP1, they also wanted to sell it to customers but there were no takers. In both situations the true potential of a car was never revealed due to limited development and being run by an amateur team or having non-pro drivers. And on top of that, in the hypercar era it's even more difficult as your competition is a proven manufacturer with a very good car...

[flatlandsman]

I have an element of agreement with you, but Ginetta were dumb to release a car like that when the class was properly dead, so who on earth would buy one when an P2 Oreca could be used in far more races etc, and let's be frank the Ginetta LMP2 was not a great seller either, other things come in to play.

The IF was never going to do well relying on one good driver and two money bringers, but it was not awful, the Vanwall was awful and the Glick was quick at times and awful others despite a much longer development and some very good drivers. I doubt the IF was developed much at all much like the Vanwall which although slow was initially reliable, but the team running it is less than worth mentioning, shame for them but I think again with a half decent team running the car it could be a useful privateer car. Sadly you will never guy buyers when they can probably get a 963 for close to the price and it is already there.

It should not be ALL about factory customer cars leased, there has to be a place for this stuff, ACO will do what they always do and obsess about factories and manufacturers, they always have and always do and this will hopefully not cycle into disrepair as it has done multiple times in the past. AS long as costs are controlled I hope it remains as good as currently.

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by veeten

Well, we'll just have to see who IF will be working with for next year.

And hope they'll have the benefit of a better BoP calculation.