Does not wanting to flag make you a bad marshal?

[NewYankee01]

Originally Posted by mattt

as an experienced specialist pits/startline

ive now this season started doing a few meetings out on the bank to "add another string to the bow", on my first day i rotated around flag and incident.
a few meetings later i did pit exit at Rockingham from where your operating repeat chequer, normal flag point aswell as the pit exit lights - the few sessions i spent out on the bank flagging gave me the confidence to blue flag from the pit exit.

my last two meetings out on the bank ive only been doing the incident part of it but whilst i was doing it i was watching to see where i would've blue flagged and seeing whether the flaggie did.

ive found it very interesting talking to mostly incident marshals and hearing what there opinions of pits/startline is, is a very interesting experience and i try to make the differing point of view and try to suggest they try it a couple of times.

i think it is very important for people to have experience of all the areas of marshalling; incident, flagging and specialist roles. over the next few years i plan to keep doing 12 days of pits/startline whilst also doing incident/flag to hopefully upgrade at some pt in a couple of years.

oh pit lane exit, now that's another pit flagging point that looks good, ive done back up chequered before but not in the pits, the selling point must be operating the lights and the like!

[NewYankee01]

Originally Posted by exflagman

Is this the same NewYankee01 who has allegedly spent the whole year flagging and appears to be trying to volunteer do flag at the GP and all over the continent?

there's nothing alleged about anything and it "appears" i am "trying" to volunteer to flag the 2012 gp which will go alongside all the continental meetings i will be "allegedly" doing

[exflagman]

Originally Posted by NewYankee01

dont want to seem better than thou but i started flagging on my first day...unaccompanied

Possibly explains quite a lot....

[Ubique]

Originally Posted by exflagman

Possibly explains quite a lot....

Exflagman not being funny but what is with the sudden personal attack on NY01? You have made some interesting comments on this thread which I have on the whole enjoyed reading but your last few have really lowered any value that your views may have. Now I'm sure that NY01 doesn't need anyone fighting their battles for them but can we please quit the personal digs and keep the posts relevant to the actually topic that we are discussing.

At the end of the day we are all here discussing current marshalling and as your User name says your an Exflagman and whilst your views are valid so are those of new (and current) marshals like NY01.

[exflagman]

Originally Posted by Ubique

Exflagman not being funny but what is with the sudden personal attack on NY01? You have made some interesting comments on this thread which I have on the whole enjoyed reading but your last few have really lowered any value that your views may have. Now I'm sure that NY01 doesn't need anyone fighting their battles for them but can we please quit the personal digs and keep the posts relevant to the actually topic that we are discussing.

At the end of the day we are all here discussing current marshalling and as your User name says your an Exflagman and whilst your views are valid so are those of new (and current) marshals like NY01.

Sorry - wasn't intended to be a personal attack - though rereading it, I guess that could be the way it came across.
I guess I was just trying to understand how the current training/grading system seems to have resulted in someone attempting to go from trainee to GP flag marshal in one season.

Yes, as the user name suggests, I have been off the scene for a few years for a variety of reasons, but some people keep trying to persuade me to come back and help out with training new flag marshals and I have been posting in an attempt to understand what the real atmosphere is like rather than the idealised situation that the MSA seems to think exists.

If I have upset anyone, NY01 in particular, than I appologise.

[Ubique]

Originally Posted by exflagman

Sorry - wasn't intended to be a personal attack - though rereading it, I guess that could be the way it came across.
I guess I was just trying to understand how the current training/grading system seems to have resulted in someone attempting to go from trainee to GP flag marshal in one season.

Yes, as the user name suggests, I have been off the scene for a few years for a variety of reasons, but some people keep trying to persuade me to come back and help out with training new flag marshals and I have been posting in an attempt to understand what the real atmosphere is like rather than the idealised situation that the MSA seems to think exists.

If I have upset anyone, NY01 in particular, than I appologise.

No worries mate I was just trying to stop any personal gripes before the thread descended into an argument like so many others have in the past.

I'm pretty sure having an experienced ex flaggie back in the fold helping trainee flag marshals would be welcomed by all marshals and if we can tempt you back trust me we will try!

As you so rightly say the MSA have an idealised view of things which isn't helped by our representatives on the Marshals Working Group being the very people who came up with this grading scheme and the problems that it has caused. Heads in the sand and all that!

[NewYankee01]

Originally Posted by Ubique

Exflagman not being funny but what is with the sudden personal attack on NY01? You have made some interesting comments on this thread which I have on the whole enjoyed reading but your last few have really lowered any value that your views may have. Now I'm sure that NY01 doesn't need anyone fighting their battles for them but can we please quit the personal digs and keep the posts relevant to the actually topic that we are discussing.

At the end of the day we are all here discussing current marshalling and as your User name says your an Exflagman and whilst your views are valid so are those of new (and current) marshals like NY01.

i think i dont need to add anymore, what has been said, has been said very well cheers

[juliet]

Originally Posted by Woolley

In the words of Churchill, you should try everything in life once, except Morris Dancing and Incest...

seems a little harsh on morris dancing - my marshal "keep warm when its freezing" jig and morris dancing have a lot in common!

[AMP Marshal]

Wow, you people in the Uk really have it tough don't you. Lets start with race tracks, Anglesey, Brands, Caldwell Park, Castle Combe, Croft, Donnington, Knockhill, Mallory Park, Oulton Park, Rockingham, Silverstone, Snetterton, Thruxton, and the list goes on, and you have the luxury to decline to flag if you so desire. Here on the east of Canada, we have 1 road course, Atlantic Motorsport Park. At the best of times we might be able to rustle up 25 people who are competent enough to do comms, incident, flagging, all of the colors, including black and meatball, hell some of us even take a shot at race control. No ill will, just pure envy really. Normally during regional stuff, we are an army of 1. Getiing back to the original question, no, not flagging doesn't make you a lesser marshal, but in my career " so " far, there has never been an event where I haven't done it all during a weekend.

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by AMP Marshal

Wow, you people in the Uk really have it tough don't you. Lets start with race tracks, Anglesey, Brands, Caldwell Park, Castle Combe, Croft, Donnington, Knockhill, Mallory Park, Oulton Park, Rockingham, Silverstone, Snetterton, Thruxton, and the list goes on, and you have the luxury to decline to flag if you so desire. Here on the east of Canada, we have 1 road course, Atlantic Motorsport Park. At the best of times we might be able to rustle up 25 people who are competent enough to do comms, incident, flagging, all of the colors, including black and meatball, hell some of us even take a shot at race control. No ill will, just pure envy really. Normally during regional stuff, we are an army of 1. Getiing back to the original question, no, not flagging doesn't make you a lesser marshal, but in my career " so " far, there has never been an event where I haven't done it all during a weekend.

Hi AMP, I am a well experienced Flaggie, and have done Race Control Comms, Timekeeper, Judge of Fact etc

Never, ever been to Canucksville but its on my bucket list!!!!

Will contact you when my plans are made

[AMP Marshal]

Originally Posted by 275 GTB-4

Hi AMP, I am a well experienced Flaggie, and have done Race Control Comms, Timekeeper, Judge of Fact etc

Never, ever been to Canucksville but its on my bucket list!!!!

Will contact you when my plans are made

We / me would love to have you ply your trade @ AMP GTB. We never turn away a warm competent body. You can stay with us, free of charge. We have a great little track, 1.6 miles, elevation of 100 feet or so, 11 turns, the last club owned track left in North America I believe. As we say here " Nos Ludos Intra Vehicula " latin for " We play in traffic ". Come play with us.

[Drummer]

Originally Posted by numbersix

Well, you were obviously forced to learn English, for which I would give you an A*. So you are now literate and can express your thoughts clearly to the world at large. Your future is considerably rosier than those who leave school grunting like chimps. I'd say they did you a favour...

Sorry I'm late, had lots of stuff on!

Thankyou for that assessment, it means a lot! Although, I must say, I doesn't learnin English at the schooling, I learning it on the interwebz! Seriously, most of what I know comes from the internet... Hey, is there a YouTube video on how to flag? Maybe I can learn all that on the internet too, so I don't need to put myself out IRL?

Well, as I said, this is how I feel right now. Maybe things will change, but I'm perfectly happy in the pits at the moment, and hope to have a go at fishing cars out of gravel next season too. Maybe I'll try flagging, but I'm saying "I don't know" for now. I'm sorry I can't be less defeatist about it, but that's just the way it is!

Honestly, do you really think I'm that good with my English? Damn, maybe I've got to have a go at Welsh now... Can't be that good at something and keep on trying to get better at it! Hmmm, what's Welsh for "I talk too much"?

[Shelagh]

Just picked up on this discussion - wow, so much of it!

My tuppence-worth:

When I started marshalling, I always knew that I wanted to be a flaggie. Partly due to having a bad knee but mainly because it looked like fun. I managed to get my "red badge" because in those days you had to have the full set of grades if you wanted to become an Observer. (Hindsight - I don't ever want to be a Post Chief!)

I was (aged 25), and still am not (aged 47), ever going to be any good at carrying fire bottles or dealing with incidents so I found my niche and left all that to those better able/suited to it.

So, does that make me a bad marshal because I won't do incident???

In my defence, I will say that after umpty-ump years saying "I will only flag", for the last few years I have undertaken any number of other duties (race phones, paddock gate at Mallory, Assembly, PieLady, TeaLady) and a whole new experience has opened up. After this rather trying year, flagging actually seems a bit tame!

I think what I'm saying is that you should do what you think best suits you. This may change over time or depending on circumstance. We are volunteering our services after all, and every job needs somebody to do it so no "job" is better than another.

It doesn't hurt to have skills under your belt and, in these current times, you might have to wave a few flags. It isn't a "chore" (says the flaggie) so look on it as a new experience. So long as you manage the yellow/green, don't get hung up about the blue - 20 years on and I will still throw the blue down in disgust at getting it wrong!

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by AMP Marshal

We / me would love to have you ply your trade @ AMP GTB. We never turn away a warm competent body. You can stay with us, free of charge. We have a great little track, 1.6 miles, elevation of 100 feet or so, 11 turns, the last club owned track left in North America I believe. As we say here " Nos Ludos Intra Vehicula " latin for " We play in traffic ". Come play with us.

Noted with thanks....I will need to save like crazy to afford the Fremont and the Rocky Mountaineer though

[Woolley]

I had a similar start ri Sheelaghm but different outcome. When I started circuits I wanted to flag but knew I'd have to do course trainee first. As a result I found how much I enjoyed incident so that I completed my red badge first before starting on the blue. To this day I split my season almost equally between hill-climbs, flag and incident.

[Shelagh]

Originally Posted by Woolley

I had a similar start ri Sheelaghm but different outcome.

Seriously no comment!

[Cynic]

Bit late to the topic, but this is something I've been fairly vocal about, so I'll stick my tuppence in.

Does not wanting to flag make you a bad marshal? No. Refusing to on the other hand might. I think one of the good things that has happened over the last few years is the necessity for marshals to be able to do any duty if numbers are tight. The fact you might not be good at it is pretty irrelevant if you're doing it because nobody else can / will.

On the broader point, I'm one of the people who won't upgrade because of the flagging requirement, and I've had this stance since the day the current system was introduced. Why? I can flag although I don't believe I'm particularly good at it, and I will flag if there aren't enough qualified flaggies to go around. But that is the only circumstance in which I intend to flag, so I don't see why I should have to get five signatures for flagging when in an ideal world I won't ever have to do it again. It would be the same if I was expected to get five signatures for assembly or pits.

Perhaps the question should really be 'Does refusing to flag make you a less well-rounded marshal'?

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by Cynic

in an ideal world I won't ever have to do it again.

Is it an ideal world? Do we always have enough people who *want* to flag?

....That's why.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Shelagh

Seriously no comment!

Ach, personal confuser and trypewriter to the fore. And I was sober at the time.

[juliet]

Originally Posted by Cynic

Does not wanting to flag make you a bad marshal? No. Refusing to on the other hand might.

Spot on, I think you have hit the nail on the head there.

[Mark Mitchell]

My problem often arises that I WANT to flag, but when they (Sign-on persons) see my Black X badge they somehow want me to Observe!
This however, can be overcome by volunteering for Donington where I can do both.....at the same time lol!

[The Flagman]

Originally Posted by Mark Mitchell

My problem often arises that I WANT to flag, but when they (Sign-on persons) see my Black X badge they somehow want me to Observe!
This however, can be overcome by volunteering for Donington where I can do both.....at the same time lol!

Sorry MM cannot go along with that. Flobservering simply doesn't work. Observing involves the post sector and car numbers, writing etc. Flagging often requires attention way outside the immediate post sector looking for shape and colour. And I've yet to find any device that can record car numbers and incident details whilst waving a flag. Two mutually exclusive activities.

Mind you knowing marshalling levels at Donington it is probably compulsory.
You would have to be very strange shape to be able to flag and phone race control at the same time!

[Greem]

Originally Posted by The Flagman

Mind you knowing marshalling levels at Donington it is probably compulsory.
You would have to be very strange shape to be able to flag and phone race control at the same time!

Oi! I resemble that remark

Don't know about being a strange shape (pipe down at the back, Smithers) but I certainly have had the "three arm challenge" more than once during this season. All part of this daft pastime we share.

[Chigley]

You would have to be very strange shape to be able to flag and phone race control at the same time!

Don't forget the extinguisher, broom and cement dust as well for when you're on post single handed. Plus covering three posts as it's a Friday with under 20 marshals about.

[Lord Summerisle]

Originally Posted by The Flagman

Sorry MM cannot go along with that. Flobservering simply doesn't work. Observing involves the post sector and car numbers, writing etc. Flagging often requires attention way outside the immediate post sector looking for shape and colour. And I've yet to find any device that can record car numbers and incident details whilst waving a flag. Two mutually exclusive activities.

Mind you knowing marshalling levels at Donington it is probably compulsory.
You would have to be very strange shape to be able to flag and phone race control at the same time!

I think that was his point