[BTCC] BTCC 2022 season discussion, News and Rumours!

[medius]

Originally Posted by peebee2

You think Jiggy has money?

He did until the cheque bounced and put Bobby at risk too. Then the Croft roll finished that piggy bank off too.

[peebee2]

Really? That wasn’t what I heard but maybe you are right.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by BTCC frog

I am going to predict Tom Chilton to WSR. He has had an awful season this year but considering the similar struggles of Rowbottom and Oliphant in the second Ciceley car, I doubt that is down to him. That second Ciceley BMW is probably quite an undesirable one, but I think it will go to a rookie.

I may be mis-remembering this but wasn't there some suggestion that Chilton effective funded the build of the new BMWs. If so then I would be surprised if jumped ship after one year. Although as mentioned already in another post, the problem seems not down to which team is running the cars but the fact that he seems to struggle in RWD.

[BTCC frog]

Originally Posted by Steel Wheels

Wow, how much if that is rumour & paddock chatter or online guessing?

I don’t have any inside paddock knowledge. It is around half from reputable sources online or from the other thread, and half ‘educated guesses’ (as opposed to totally random ones).

[BTCC frog]

The only reason I suspect it would be better for Chilton in the WSR BMWs is because Morgan has had good teammates in the past and they have all struggled. Although Chilton does probably have more of an influence (if that’s the right word) in the team than the other drivers, so maybe it is just RWD that is the problem for him.

To move the Crees discussion here instead of the Donington thread, Tom Oliphant brings a lot of money to WSR, so although Jelley brings some as well, they will still need a big pay driver in the third seat if they are to keep Turkington. I would be very happy with Crees in a WSR car if it keeps Turkington on the grid, although a race winner with deep pockets would obviously be preferable.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by BTCC frog

Although Chilton does probably have more of an influence (if that’s the right word) in the team than the other drivers, so maybe it is just RWD that is the problem for him.

Tom Chilton [8 Oct 21]: 'It was a slow burner at the beginning of the season learning how to get the most out of the RWD car [...] I'm getting fast, but not from the very first second I go out of the pitlane [...] deep down I'm a FWD driver at heart [...] I'm a beginner this year'

[Steel Wheels]

Originally Posted by BTCC frog

I don’t have any inside paddock knowledge. It is around half from reputable sources online or from the other thread, and half ‘educated guesses’ (as opposed to totally random ones).

Cool, yeah just seen some in other threads. I suppose the WSR rumours may be shaped by what BMW do. Rumours are they are bailing out, so maybe more money needed to top up the funds or no Mr Turkington.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Steel Wheels

Cool, yeah just seen some in other threads. I suppose the WSR rumours may be shaped by what BMW do. Rumours are they are bailing out, so maybe more money needed to top up the funds or no Mr Turkington.

Much rumoured Jaguar?

[Pickles]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Which has been a disaster of a project.

Has it really been a disaster?

[thetool]

Originally Posted by sceptic

Chilton going to WSR won't solve the main problem he's having this year: He can't drive RWD cars.

I don't think that's fair. He's been a race winner in RWD prototypes in the past, against decent opposition. Clearly something isn't working with him and the Morgan BMW at the moment. But then, up until last weekend, had he been any more underwhelming than Shedden who's in the same drivetrain combination as he won three championships with?

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Pickles

Has it really been a disaster?

Not much better than the old VW

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by Pickles

Has it really been a disaster?

Well Goff and Aron are race winners and struggling to qualify inside the top 20, and Goff's gone completely backwards since a promising start to the year, so... yes, I think so.

[mprmke]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Not much better than the old VW

They are the weakest team on the grid by some distance, so it was never going to be right up there.

It's an upgrade on the decrepit VW and about as good as you can expect to get from Team HARD.

[Pickles]

Not sure what some people expect from a brand new car with minimal testing in such a close field, personally I think words like 'hopeless' and 'disaster' are a bit harsh. Wouldn't be any fun if we didn't have different opinions though!

[mprmke]

Indeed. I would say it has slightly exceeded my expectations.

[Pickles]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Not much better than the old VW

Goff scored more points in the first round at Thruxton than in the whole of 2020.

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by Pickles

Not sure what some people expect from a brand new car with minimal testing in such a close field, personally I think words like 'hopeless' and 'disaster' are a bit harsh. Wouldn't be any fun if we didn't have different opinions though!

The early season performances were reasonably good / promising with Goff particularly doing well, but they seem to be falling backwards now. Other teams also launch brand new cars with minimal testing, so I don't see that as a reason to expect poor performance.

Hard have signed Aaron Taylor Smith on a multi year deal, which is a change for this team, and if this is a sign of stability then maybe results will improve too in the longer term.

Some of the HARD drivers are complaining about lack of speed on the straights and others complaining about handling trouble, but it's difficult from the outside to know what is really going on. Goff and Taylor-Smith are both "known quality" drivers, and if given the right car are capable of delivering very good results, and I do hope that we see that next season.

[BTCC frog]

I think it’s fair to say Team HARD’s best season was 2017, their first season with the VW, when they had a very strong driver lineup of Jake Hill and Mike Epps. In the following seasons, they got progressively worse. Their points halved in 2018, but this was partly down to the weaker driver lineup. Mike Bushell still challenged the top five on merit (no ballast, of course) at Knockhill and Rockingham, and his points hall was on a similar level to Hill. In 2019, they took a considerable step backwards, and were much slower than in the past. Goff won the wet-dry race at Silverstone, while Thompson and Crees also gained a lot of points from wet-dry races that masked the slow pace of the VW in the points. In 2020, Jack Goff scored nine points in total, having scored 200+ when at Eurotech. Clearly, it was time for a change.

With the Cupra, HARD have now got a lineup of Jack Goff and Aron Smith, the best lineup they’ve ever had, as both are race winners. I was expecting them to be on the level they were at in 2017, but it’s fair to say they have been some way off that, as the overall grid was also stronger then than now. In that respect, the Cupra has not been a success. But the key difference is that the VW was already quite an old car in 2017, so was expected to decline over the coming years and HARD kept it for too long. The Cupra is brand new for 2021, so should improve over the next few years as Team HARD gain more knowledge of the car. So it will hopefully be better next year. But they still are the weakest team on the grid by quite a margin, so will need some significant improvement if Goff and Smith are to win races again, maybe from the outside assistance of the BMR crew if they don’t split at the end of the year.

[Matt K]

Actually I almost believed Cupra is a significant step forward for them when Goff was consistently in the Top 10 earlier in the season but they've gone completely backwards since.

Maybe it's down to the fact that, as someone mentioned before, all teams are developing their cars, setups etc as the season progresses and HARD just couldn't keep up.

One thing's certain now, a lot of time needs to pass until HARD becomes a solid, middle-of-pack team with some sights on more regular podiums and Top 5 finishes. It might as well never happen.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by Pickles

Not sure what some people expect from a brand new car with minimal testing in such a close field, personally I think words like 'hopeless' and 'disaster' are a bit harsh. Wouldn't be any fun if we didn't have different opinions though!

Yet Excerl8 got a podium in their debut weekend for the Hyundai last year.

It's a great looking car (save for the livery) but it's never going to get anywhere under HARD.

[S griffin]

Excerl8 are still a long way from where they want to be though. They are up against it, but definitely Excerl8's journey has been great so far

I do like the Cupra, just wish it had a better livery. Personally I think it was a good move from HARD, take on a new project and try and get more interest that way. If only SEAT/Cupra would help them in some way

[Pdh]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Yet Excerl8 got a podium in their debut weekend for the Hyundai last year.

It's a great looking car (save for the livery) but it's never going to get anywhere under HARD.

Excerl8 and also Motorbase got 2 podiums on their debut with the new focus.
Team hard have got a long way to go before they are going to be classed as anything but the back marker team

[Pickles]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Yet Excerl8 got a podium in their debut weekend for the Hyundai last year.

Not saying its not possible, just saying that some expect a brand new car to instantly be at the sharp end.

[mprmke]

Given the quality in the field, several race winners or potential race winners won't be in machinery capable of giving them a win


1 Ash SUTTON 316 -Multiple Champion
2 Colin TURKINGTON 284 - Multiple Champion
3 Tom INGRAM 278 - Multiple Race Winner/Potential Champion
4 Jake HILL 278 - Multiple Race Winner/Potential Champion
5 Josh COOK 271 - Multiple Race Winner/Potential Champion
6 Rory BUTCHER 250 - Multiple Race Winner/Potential Champion
7 Aiden MOFFAT 231 - Multiple Race Winner
8 Gordon SHEDDEN 222 - Multiple Champion
9 Senna PROCTOR 211 - Multiple Race Winner
10 Dan ROWBOTTOM 182 - Race Winner
11 Stephen JELLEY 166 - Multiple Race Winner
12 Adam MORGAN 159 - Multiple Race Winner
13 Dan LLOYD 157 - Race Winner - You know how much I rate Jake Hill and he's proved me right that he is a potential Champion with a proper run in the right car underneath him and I've always rated Dan Lloyd similarly, but he's just never had a good run in a decent car, but he's a top driver potentially IMO

14 Jason PLATO 150 - Multiple Champion
15 Chris SMILEY 133 - Race Winner
16 Tom OLIPHANT 123 - Multiple Race Winner
17 Jack GOFF 77 - Multiple Race Winner
18 Ollie JACKSON 66 - Multiple Race Winner
19 Tom CHILTON 39 - Multiple Race Winner - Almost Champion on a couple of occasions
20 Aron TAYLOR-SMITH 31 - Multiple Race Winner
21 Dan CAMMISH 30 - Multiple Race Winner - Couple of laps from a title and currently witout a drive
22 Carl BOARDLEY 28 - Potential race winner IMO
23 Sam OSBORNE 14 - Possibly a potential race winner in the right car. If Matt Simpson an do it, I think he has similar potential
24 Jack BUTEL 4
25 Sam SMELT 2
26 Jade EDWARDS 1
27 Jack MITCHELL 0
28 Paul RIVETT 0 - Potential race winner in a decent car
29 Jessica HAWKINS 0
30 Nicolas HAMILTON 0
31 Nick HALSTEAD 0
32 Andy NEATE 0
33 Rick PARFITT 0
34 Glynn GEDDIE 0


Plus there's a decent list of previous/potential race winners or even champions that may have a realistic chance of returning to the series. So the field has never been stronger. If you put Goff and Taylor-Smith in a decent car they could win races, but the right seat just isn't there for them.

Look how close Plato and Lloyd are in the PMR Astra, but way too low down the list for their ability. Stick them in a pair of Hondas and they'd both be right up there and would have won at least one race a piece this season.

[crmalcolm]

Interesting how perspective can be ignored, or exaggerated to put across an opinion.

Árón Taylor-Smith has four wins in the BTCC, and a best finish of 8th. He is in a new car, in a team that is developing - 31 points is a disaster for a car project.

Tom Chilton has fourteen wins in the BTCC, and a best finish of 3rd. He is in a developed car, in a team that is rated highly - 39 points is a sign that the driver is struggling.

Is it possible that both drivers are taking time to adjust to new machinery - in the same way that Shedden seemed to early in the season?

For a comparison - Donington Park qualifying:

2021 - 0.94 seconds off the fastest lap puts you 28th on the grid.
2020 - 1.12 seconds off the fastest lap puts you 17th on the grid.
2019 - 1.02 seconds off the fastest lap puts you 11th on the grid.

Or to put it another way, Árón Taylor-Smith was 0.454 off the fastest qualifying time at Donington this year, in 20th place. A similar gap to the leader in 2020 would see him qualifying 9th, in 2019 he would have qualified 2nd.

The field has closed up so much in the last two seasons, that a pace good enough for 2nd in 2019 is now only worth 20th!