[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

live from the rules announcement

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/n...f-le-mans.html

Thanks Sam.

a few points:

-LMP regulations have been delayed until 2011, as the results of the ongoing aerodynamic study started in the wake of the accidents at Le Mans and Monza. These regs will be revealed on November 15th.

-Any hybrid that starts an ACO race in 2009 will not be eligible for points and will not feature in the overall classification.



is that two engines a weekend? No way. That can be for the year?

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

I was only able to find the French version on http://www.lemans.org/24heuresdumans..._regl09_fr.pdf

what is the title? Heck even in French I can read it

"IN THE SPIRIT of 2009 REGULATIONS"

:lol:

Hope some one with good translation skills post an English version soon. My French is rusty, but some of the things I am reading ( or think I am reading) will slow the cars down.

plus a big one I think is reduction in LMP1 engine cylinder numbers
reduce the CO2 emissions at the LM24
FIA 2010 rules in accord with the ACO 2011 rules

Nov 15 for the full 2011 rules

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

is that two engines a weekend? No way. That can be for the year?

Just read [quote]According to http://www.planetlemans.com/2008/09/...ss-conference/

3) Mandatory use of one engine for 2 races (exception made of the Le Mans 24 Hours)

In case of LMS, 3 for 1 season (5-6 rounds).

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

I was only able to find the French version on http://www.lemans.org/24heuresdumans..._regl09_fr.pdf

English version is online on http://www.lemans.org/24heuresdumans..._regl09_gb.pdf

[gwyllion]

Only 2 mechanics during tyre changes and tyre warmers are banned

[ss_collins]

added the exact details now - and a bit on 2011. I think the regs have good and bad elements. I like the tyre thing.

[gwyllion]

@Sam:

LMP1 Restrictor size reduced by 10%

That is only for diesels

LMP1 engine power cut by 150 bhp

Is this your interpretation of current LMP2 engines (500 bhp) replacing today's big engines (650 bhp)? Or exactly mentioned during press conference?

[Taxi645]

"‐ LM P2 engines’ air restrictors will be reduced by 10%."

That's quite harsh isn't it, considering LMP1 race engines (production -3%) get no restrictor changes? (Think Verstappen will be looking for a different seat then, next year).

"In 2011, the regulations foresee the use of the present generation LM P2 engines in LM P1."

"► They will lead to a significant reduction in the power of LM P1 engines (around 150 bhp) and their performances. This year the quickest LM P2 lapped the Le Mans circuit in 3m 35s. By keeping the LM P1’s minimum weight at 900 kilos (+3 seconds) and imposing the 2009 wing (+4 seconds) we will achieve a lap time of 3m 35s + 3 + 4 = 3m 42s."

Using LMP2 engines in a 900kg car seems like a somewhat odd combination to me. I mean they must be at least 125kg overweight, isn't that a bit over the top?


Anyway, seems diesels and petrols are well balanced now and the wing changes makes sure every one stay above or near the 3:30 Le Mans lap.

[deggis]

In the PDF it says 2-race engines rule would too for ALMS and Asian Series (lol, if that ever materializes). So in LMS you must use same engine for 2000 kms. In ALMS possibly in minimum two 1 min 45 min races... then bad luck if you to have use same engine in Petit and Laguna!

What's the penalty then for changing the engine? Grid position penalty? That will surely increase "great duels in all classes".

And how this will affect engine development?

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

"‐ LM P2 engines’ air restrictors will be reduced by 10%."

That's quite harsh isn't it, considering LMP1 race engines get no restrictor changes? (Think Verstappen will be looking for a different seat then, next year).

Another clear message to Porsche. The gap between LMP1 and LMP2 is made bigger.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by deggis

And how this will affect engine development?

The current engines are supposed to last 24 hours anyway. So I don't see any problem.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

The current engines are supposed to last 24 hours anyway. So I don't see any problem.

I meant if the engines are sealed or something between the races.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

added the exact details now - and a bit on 2011. I think the regs have good and bad elements. I like the tyre thing.

Good and Bad? Then everyone is equally unhappy. Then that is GOOD.



Thanks gwyllion on the engine clarification. One engine per two races, is about normal.

[gwyllion]

The rear wing is significantly reduced:

The wing must fit into a volume of 150 mm (vertical) x 250 mm (horizontal) x 1600 mm (transversal). It must have a 20mm minimum Gurney flap.

Compared to current rules:

Be framed by a volume measuring 300 mm horizontally x 150 mm vertically x overall width of the bodywork (= 2000 mm maximum)

40 cm smaller in width and 5 cm in depth.

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Another clear message to Porsche. The gap between LMP1 and LMP2 is made bigger.

Yes, well I kinda expected a 5% difference, but 10% is quite a lot. Also wonder if this won't cause confusing situations between LMP2 and GT1 on the straights, since GT1 only got a 2% reduction. I could imagine situations where an LMP2 overtakes a GT1 on acceleration and then get pulled back in by the GT1 on top speed, might make things slightly more complicated in heavy traffic.

About Porsche, well I think in LMS they're just interested in winning their class since a petrol car couldn't win LMP1/overall. So merely slowing down all LMP2's will not change that much. Of course Porsche could consider LMP1 now again, with the improved conditions for petrol, but just two years before the next major change would be too short perhaps to justify any major LMP1 development. With LMP2 engines in LMP1 planned for 2011 that obviously looks completely different.

[Spyderman]

Yes, I wouldn't expect to see a Porsche in LMP1 (if they ever decide to go that route) before the end of 2010.

[Taxi645]

And another thing, if LMP1 are targetted for 3.42 laptimes in 2011, how slow do they want LMP2 and the GT's? LMP2 were 13.8s slower then LMP1 so they'll end up 3.55-4.00. That's pretty close to the fastest GT2 car of this year (4.00min).

[dxk1]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

"In 2011, the regulations foresee the use of the present generation LM P2 engines in LM P1."

"► They will lead to a significant reduction in the power of LM P1 engines (around 150 bhp) and their performances. This year the quickest LM P2 lapped the Le Mans circuit in 3m 35s. By keeping the LM P1’s minimum weight at 900 kilos (+3 seconds) and imposing the 2009 wing (+4 seconds) we will achieve a lap time of 3m 35s + 3 + 4 = 3m 42s."

Will they be keeping the present LMP2 engine restrictor size and turbo rules as well? I don't think engine size alone will keep horsepower down. Remember the 3.0 liter V6 IMSA Corvette GTP generated almost 1000 horsepower so allowances can be made and plenty of power can be generated from a smaller engine. As was stated earlier in the thread, the only consequence is much lower engine reliability when you try to squeeze too much horsepower out of a smaller engine. It will also need to be rebuilt more often and replaced more often.

DK

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

Using LMP2 engines in a 900kg car seems like a somewhat odd combination to me. I mean they must be at least 125kg overweight, isn't that a bit over the top?

I overlooked the following part:

"► The weight gain from these new smaller engines may be used by the manufacturers to install energy retrieval systems."

So they could be using part of the ~125kg to install KERS like systems.

Originally Posted by dxk1

Will they be keeping the present LMP2 engine restrictor size and turbo rules as well? I don't think engine size alone will keep horsepower down. Remember the 3.0 liter V6 IMSA Corvette GTP generated almost 1000 horsepower so allowances can be made and plenty of power can be generated from a smaller engine. As was stated earlier in the thread, the only consequence is much lower engine reliability when you try to squeeze too much horsepower out of a smaller engine. It will also need to be rebuilt more often and replaced more often.

DK

Well they mentioned they target a 150hp decrease in horsepower, so I assume they will keep restrictor and pressure regulations such that the intended reduction is more or less retained. Don't think they explicitly mention those 2011 restrictor and pressure regulation in the presentation though.

[Speed-King]

Bad day for Judd and AER, if they get indeed forced out of LMP2 and LMP1 becomes mostly a manufacturer category.

[deggis]

This I don't get... "Chassis and bodywork modifications: No fundamental chassis modifications will be brought in" like it says on the PDF.

But Poissenot still mentioned "wider cockpits, wider windshield and side protection" in the interview by M. Pruett.

Personally I don't understand why do all the performance reducement with engine sizes (after '11) and do nothing regarding bodywork (excluding the small wing changes). Less single-seater looks (especially the nose) are more aesthetical and here's the magic word: slower.

[Gil Abobeleira]

I don't like the new LPM1 engine rules post 2011.

It reminds me a little bit of the post 1972 rules, and the Sport 3,5l. Neither of those were that famous, as they, in fact, drove the privateers away

How come the ACO did not bring the Group C rules is beyond me! Instead of the utter bs about "the diesels make more power blablabla"; just tell the teams: "you've got 35l per 100 km, live with it!"=> better fuel efficient engines=> better road mileage for the mere humans like us!

[TRuss]

We all know that simple solutions rarely appeal to the governing bodies of auto racing.

[Ultimo]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Another clear message to Porsche. The gap between LMP1 and LMP2 is made bigger.

Well, PLM has one of the rules as being:

2) Allow only standard production engines in LMP2 (including GT2 engines)

Whereas the press release states:

Introduction of ‘production’ engines in LM P2

So which is it?

If it's the former, is it realistic for Porsche to use a flat-6 in the Spyder?

[deggis]

Next year introduction. In 2011 or whenever the major shakeup of engine rules comes, then only production engines would be allowed in P2.