[WEC] Porsche GTP / Hypercar: factory and customer

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Porsche917K

Also don't know if it was mentioned before, but 3 years is a long time and I don't see them slowing their GT program as it makes them so much money. So I would bet we see the Porsche factory driver stable increase in size, and maybe with some young blood.

Good point, I'm sure Porsche won't want to completely gut their GTE talent even after 2014 as the GTE teams are loyal paying customers.

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

If Porsche were to run 3 cars at Le Mans then this would be my ideal lineup. Just some suggestions including current factory/non factory drivers as well as some new hires of drivers that should be on the market. Id put Bergmeister on the list but of course there were fitting issues with the Spyder.

Car 1:

Timo Bernhard
Romain Dumas
David Brabham

Car 2:

Marc Leib
Lucas Luhr
Klaus Graf

Car 3:

Patrick Long
Joao Barbosa
Jeroen Bleekemolen

Brabham will be close to 50 by 2014. That does not necessarily mean anything, but who knows. If we are going with older drivers, Jorg Muller may be available then. Bleekemolen is a good guess I think. I'm sure some current F1 drivers will be in the mix as well. Heidfeld maybe? Trulli maybe if Toyota does not scoop him up? Heikki or whatever his name is? What about someone like Dario Franchitti? I can't imagine that he would be too excited to see how many ridiculous new gimmicks the IRL can come up with.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by AGD

Yeah, it would be interesting to know the circumstances of that statement. Perhaps Audi thought that there would not be a serious petrol contender during the expected lifespan of the R18 (or at least of the engine) and so they decided to do what marketing wanted (diesel) since they could win with whatever they chose to do and all they would have to beat is Peugeot and they have the same disadvantage. Also, maybe they figure that they will never be at a rules disadvantage as long as they choose what Peugeot chooses. In other words, if a serious petrol team did come in, maybe the rules would change again to balance or favor the diesels if that is what Peugeot is running.

As far as the ALMS is concerned, isn't Porsche a supporter of the ALMS' new media platform? It is interesting that Porsche sort of announced this program through YouTube. Anyway, that does not mean anything in regard to whether the Porsche LMP1 will compete in the ALMS, but the media platform as such may not prohibit them from doing so if they are supporters of it. I would say it is unlikely that there will be a Porsche factory team in the ALMS full-time, but who knows. Maybe Neiman or someone can talk Porsche into providing a customer car or something.

I asked the question directly of Chris Reinke who is Technical Project leader of the R18 programme. His answer was direct that a full works Petrol would be 'without a doubt' quicker. The impression all group got was that the answers to our questions were very honest - however who knows?

Later in the interview he was asked a similar question about whether they would switch to Hybrid. The answer was that the decision would be performance led and not marketing led and they would only switch when they were sure such a car would be faster and reliable. This answer somewhat contradicts the first as if the decisions are made purely for performance reasons and not marketing ones why haven't they switched to petrol if they consider it faster?

[TF110]

That's the problem with the diesel advantage. There isn't a very big advantage when you consider they're running against privateer teams and a weak effort from Aston Martin. Toyota, Nissan now for sure- Porsche comes to LeMans, you can bet they'll be up to speed, if not faster than Audi and Peugeot.

[Audi Racer]

Regarding the lack of drivers.....Two words......Danny Watts

I think Timo and Romain are going back to Porsche, which is why they are still Porsche factory drivers who have been loaned to Audi...

I also think Lucas Luhr will return as a Porsche Factory Driver......(Much too young and talented to be without a drive).

But Danny whats is a shoe in for a drive in a factory LMP1 proto in the near future....

Possibly the return of the indycar guys,(Castroneves,Briscoe, and maybe Power). for the third car at Lemans.

I think that Porsche will run three cars but two will be factory Porsche efforts while the third one will be run by Penske and his indycar drivers.

[Audi Racer]

As far as we know their is no "diesel" advantage. there is a "manufacuterer vs Privateer advantage" however thats worth about 12 seconds at Lemans.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Mal

I asked the question directly of Chris Reinke who is Technical Project leader of the R18 programme. His answer was direct that a full works Petrol would be 'without a doubt' quicker. The impression all group got was that the answers to our questions were very honest - however who knows?

Later in the interview he was asked a similar question about whether they would switch to Hybrid. The answer was that the decision would be performance led and not marketing led and they would only switch when they were sure such a car would be faster and reliable. This answer somewhat contradicts the first as if the decisions are made purely for performance reasons and not marketing ones why haven't they switched to petrol if they consider it faster?

Thanks, that is some interesting information. Who knows where the truth lies, but it would not surprise me if the current rules do favor petrols. How much of Audi's program is marketing directed and how much is racing directed is interesting.

Originally Posted by TF110

That's the problem with the diesel advantage. There isn't a very big advantage when you consider they're running against privateer teams and a weak effort from Aston Martin. Toyota, Nissan now for sure- Porsche comes to LeMans, you can bet they'll be up to speed, if not faster than Audi and Peugeot.

I think you're right. One possible issue still favoring the diesels is that the guys tuning those engines are still learning a lot about those engines which means some serious gains can be found still. It seems that even the top petrol guys can't find the same gains with petrol engines since they've been the top choice in racing for so long. If a diesel starts the year 1 second up on a petrol runner but ends the year 3 seconds up, what does the ACO do? Rebalance? Is that even fair? It's not like the fuel directly led to the new imbalance, but in a way it did. It's some complicated stuff. Well, I guess the ACO has Norbert Singer to help them out with this stuff. I wonder what his opinion will be once Porsche has LMPs on the grid! Maybe Porsche is already starting with their shrewd moves!

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

Regarding the lack of drivers.....Two words......Danny Watts

Watts would be a good hire I think. Even Jonny Kane is pretty good. The two Oreca Frenchman are quite good too. I would also consider Joey Hand if he is available, but that's just me. It'll be interesting to see if any good IRL and F1 drivers will consider sports cars now that the WEC will have a driver's title. Ok, F1 will still be the top destination for sure, but maybe a good driver stuck in a middling or low end F1 seat will reconsider? Of course, I believe that the winning six drivers from the last two years do not have any F1 race seat time between them. To that extent, who needs F1? I think Audi (and Porsche obviously) may have found the winning formula by picking top GT drivers who know how to dice things up with other cars instead of old F1 rejects.

[CTD]

Hmm, could Porsche start a partnership with Pescarolo!?
They are the most capable free LM team right now.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by CTD

Hmm, could Porsche start a partnership with Pescarolo!?
They are the most capable free LM team right now.

Oreca (assuming they don't hook up with anyone else) and a couple of GTE teams might have an argument about that, although Henri would be a great choice. Who knows what their plans are though.

With Porsche in and all the rumors about Toyota, Nissan, McLaren, and Viper coming to Le Mans in one form or another, it's starting to feel a bit like 1998 all over again. One has to wonder if BMW and Mercedes are still thinking that DTM is the magic elixir for the future.

[Spyderman]

The driver issue is going to be very interesting to follow.
Assuming that all current contracts will remain valid in 2014, my take is that Bernhard,Dumas, Long and Lieb will definitely be involved in the program. (Remember that Lieb is playing a larger and larger role as race-car engineer at Porsche so he will have a sizable role in the development work)
Leitz - I suspect may also get a ride.

The issue will be the management of the driver portfolio. Porsche will still have to provide support to the GTE teams, so I suspect Bergmeister (due to size),Henzler, Pilet and Holzer will continue to hold down the fort for the GTE program.
Holzer may get a crack at the prototype as he is showing himself to be quick and is still very young.
Luhr - maybe brought back into the fold, but his little "episode" at Audi may play against him.

Porsche will need to bring in at least two other LMP drivers and possibly two other drivers to support GTE.
I would think that Rene Rast would get offered a contract along with Norbert Siedler.That would take care of GTE.

Bleekmolen and Graf will certainly be possibilities for the LMP1 program.

Sponsorship - Christophorus (official Porsche magazine) had a large article about Dr. Helmut Marko and Porsche in one of their recent issues. Also Red Bull is giving up their NASCAR sponsorship program. Coincidence?

[porsche91722]

Originally Posted by arakis

P.S. mods feel free to move these P vs F arguments to the designated thread if they get out of hand. I was only responding to a jab by a porshce fan boy
BTW it was never about hte balls only about the money, and neither Porsche nor Ferrari have the cash to support both F1 and sportscars. so they chose theyr respective strong suits and went separite ways. Respect it, dont mock it.

Holy Moley, Get over yourself mate.
A couple of things.......Let us enjoy our day. I think it is a great day for sports car racing in general, having Porsche returning to Le Mans and LMP1.
By the way, it's been a long time since I was a boy, so I will take that as a compliment (I think??)
You're probably right, I should move over to the other thread to poke any jibes your way.

[92scotland]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Sponsorship - Christophorus (official Porsche magazine) had a large article about Dr. Helmut Marko and Porsche in one of their recent issues. Also Red Bull is giving up their NASCAR sponsorship program. Coincidence?

Well if (and a big if) Red Bull does indeed go with Porsche, maybe see a return for Webber?

[Speed-King]

I would think that Rene Rast would get offered a contract along with Norbert Siedler.That would take care of GTE.

Bleekmolen and Graf will certainly be possibilities for the LMP1 program.

I think Rast's goal is DTM and he already has a shoe in the door there with his ADAC GT-Masters gig with Phoenix. Chances are, he (and Chris Mies) will have a DTM-ride by 2014.

As for Graf, the guy is pretty much seen as a "never-has-been" in Germany. Yes, he's had some good showings in ALMS lately, but with the current fields over there that isn't worth as much as it would have been five years ago and he isn't getting any younger.

[Ultimo]

What news could possibly be better than this for sportscar racing fans?

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

I think Rast's goal is DTM and he already has a shoe in the door there with his ADAC GT-Masters gig with Phoenix. Chances are, he (and Chris Mies) will have a DTM-ride by 2014.

Maybe things will change by 2014. I wouldn't take DTM over a Porsche Works Driver contract with a possibility of getting a promotion to the LMP1 program. But maybe that's just me.

Originally Posted by Speed-King

As for Graf, the guy is pretty much seen as a "never-has-been" in Germany. Yes, he's had some good showings in ALMS lately, but with the current fields over there that isn't worth as much as it would have been five years ago and he isn't getting any younger.

I am not "married" to either driver. It will all depend on the "profile" of the driver that Porsche deem to be necessary to complement the team at that stage.

[Audi Racer]

Any ideas on the looks. Put it this way.

It Could:
1. bear a striking resemblance to the Porsche RS Spyder
2.Take little bits and pieces from the RS Spyder
3.A Radical Departure from the RS Spyder...

Considering the car is probably going to have the large front tires like everyone else. That gives alot of room on the front fender to incorporate a Porsche style headlight.

[Spyderman]

I haven't a clue what it will look like, but I suspect it will look as weird as all the other LMP1's running around with that massive shark fin down its back.

[Audi Racer]

I have an idea of what it will sound like. It depends on whether they use a turbo or not.

[911targa]

BMS Scuderia Italia Spa can also be a force,in 1997 their 911 GT1 finished 4th in class at LM24,last year rank 3rd at LM24 and won Spa24 overall with a GT3 RSR,this year they intend to race the RSR again with Romian Grosjean.That an experienced historic team without any project yet.Also,their excellent results can attract lots of drivers from other races.

[Audi Racer]

Anyone care to have with one of these engineers and see if you can get something out of them.......

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by 911targa

BMS Scuderia Italia Spa can also be a force,in 1997 their 911 GT1 finished 4th in class at LM24,last year rank 3rd at LM24 and won Spa24 overall with a GT3 RSR,this year they intend to race the RSR again with Romian Grosjean.That an experienced historic team without any project yet.Also,their excellent results can attract lots of drivers from other races.

I honestly don't see Porsche handing the cars out to anyone. Porsche AG all the way.

[Audi Racer]

Someone mentioned it earlier but i think that it is a double positive for VAG to have Porsche and Audi in LMP1. Do you know how many more people are tning into Lemans now that they've heard Porsche are back. You can imagine the aura in Japan if toyotat comes back. Bringing attention to the sport is what matters. Having Porsche in the sport brigs soo much attention. Including the attention of One Mr. Roger Penske.

[AGD]

I don't know about Penske. If Penske were involved, it would probably be in the ALMS. I'm sure Porsche would be willing to have him run a car if he can find some money for a program, but who knows if that will happen. I guess it could end up like Audi's efforts to put a car in the ALMS this year, although maybe Porsche US (or whatever) would be more willing to chip in a couple of bucks. Of course, we are talking about 2.5 years from now, a lot of things can change in regard to who the fast drivers are, who potential team managers are, the rules, and so forth.

[Tourer]

However this is run or by which teams, this is great for sports racing to have Porsche back in the top category. A very, very positive bit of news and probably a sign that the sports governance of sports car racing is getting stable enough for Porsche to come back in.

Very good and very positive news - now if only Ferrari would have a crack as well - how good would that be?

[Audi Racer]

Do you think DHL(german mail carrier/package serrvice) will sponsor. I don;t know what it is about that paint scheme that has me mesmerized.

[Simmi]

Nishy tweeted this a couple of hours ago:

Great news about Porsche back in LMP1 at Le Mans, looking forward to good hard competition from the boys from Flacht.

http://twitter.com/#!/AllanMcNish

All the talk is of 'competition' which is good to hear.