Official Round 09 : British Grand Prix - Page 6

**Peter Mallett** · 10 Jul 2012, 05:45 (Ref:3104454)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Snout

Like most things it depends on who the driver is as to who people like to blame. Identical incidents, but different conclusions. As always, it's about the agenda.

As I said earlier, the only thing that is identical is the position of the cars in the corner, what seems to be the issue is what happened leading up to the incident. In the Webber/Fisi incident, Mark had been chasing Fisi down and (IMO) knew like we all did (including the commentators), that Fisi's tyres were old and knackered. Therfore by passing him on the outside of the corner, he put himself in unnecessary danger and suffered the consequenes.

The Maldonado/Perez incident was different. Perez was being passed by Maldonado on the inside and tried (IMO) to give the Williams room. Maldonado failed to account for his cold tyres and rammed the Sauber. True both cars were sliding but the supervening event was Maldonado losing grip as he braked into the corner, had he retained control (say on warmer tyres) then Perez would have slid wide and Maldonado would have gone through. The conclusion I draw; Maldonado was reckless in his attempt to pass at that time, although admittedly, he may never have been in a better position, it doesn't relieve him of the blame.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

Only in the opinion of some, and that is of no importance to Williams. What maybe of more importance to Williams is the performance of its other driver. You can make a quick driver calm down, but it's difficult to know what to do with a slow driver, apart from the obvious.

Frankly in the opinion of many. Just remember, you can kick a turd but it still stinks, all it does is change shape.

IceMan_PJN · 10 Jul 2012, 06:04 (Ref:3104458)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Snout

Like most things it depends on who the driver is as to who people like to blame. Identical incidents, but different conclusions. As always, it's about the agenda.

I guess it's hard to completely eliminate bias. I'm sure I must unintentionally view things a bit differently based on whether my driver is involved or in what role. This difference of perspective seems pretty common though. Looking at local racing for example, Sprint Cup cars coming together and one guy eating a wall will be shrugged off as "rubbin' is racin'" in one instance but if Montoya is involved then suddenly "these foreigners need to stick with open wheel where they belong". If Danica Patrick gets wrecked, "those little boys can't handle being beaten by a woman", but if she wrecks someone then "she's tough as nails and letting the boys have it".

OZ_HCR32 · 10 Jul 2012, 10:27 (Ref:3104535)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Perez was being passed by Maldonado on the inside and tried (IMO) to give the Williams room. Maldonado failed to account for his cold tyres and rammed the Sauber. True both cars were sliding but the supervening event was Maldonado losing grip as he braked into the corner, had he retained control (say on warmer tyres) then Perez would have slid wide and Maldonado would have gone through. The conclusion I draw; Maldonado was reckless in his attempt to pass at that time, although admittedly, he may never have been in a better position, it doesn't relieve him of the blame.

Wasnt Maldanado defending? Perez was the one overtaking.

Either way, I think the point is the Sauber was a quick car, and could have picked his moment better...that said plenty pulled off similar moves with success...just not on Maldonado...its a racing incident which went pear shaped. Kimi on the first lap could have gone pair shape, Webber on Alonso in closing laps could have gone pair shaped... etc etc

I think the common thing is lack of experience, Webber on Fisi was in his first season of being anywhere near the front and use to (still to some?) be a bit of a hatchet overtaker....ditto Maldanado and Perez...both a bit underdone and made some mistakes that have cost them serious points in what is very early on in their careers.

**Peter Mallett** · 10 Jul 2012, 10:34 (Ref:3104542)

Quote:

Originally Posted by OZ_HCR32

Wasnt Maldanado defending? Perez was the one overtaking.

I thought he was chasing Perez down the straight. If not then I aspologise and stand corrected. It does not change my mind about his actions but it would then make it very similar to the Fisi Webber thing.

**gomick** · 10 Jul 2012, 10:45 (Ref:3104547)

Maldonado & Perez are refreshing - get'em in a McLaren & Ferrari! Nothing wrong with Maldonado's driving, GP2 champion & GP race winner, enuff said

CTD · 10 Jul 2012, 11:04 (Ref:3104560)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomick

Maldonado & Perez are refreshing - get'em in a McLaren & Ferrari! Nothing wrong with Maldonado's driving, GP2 champion & GP race winner, enuff said

The border between genius and stupid in overtaking is very thin. Maldonado, like Hamilton was, is too much on the stupid side, where Hamilton today seem to have found is way over to the sane side.
This years F1 champion will be the one whos able to keep calm and collect his points through stability.

Marbot · 10 Jul 2012, 12:13 (Ref:3104591)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Frankly in the opinion of many. Just remember, you can kick a turd but it still stinks, all it does is change shape.

**Bononi** · 10 Jul 2012, 14:31 (Ref:3104662)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomick

Nothing wrong with Maldonado's driving, GP2 champion & GP race winner, enuff said

A list of drivers with a similar pedigree would have at least 2 pages...

**chunterer** · 10 Jul 2012, 14:52 (Ref:3104672)

Back to the race (there's a separate thread to discuss the 'finer' points of Pastor Maldonado...)

I thought Hulkenberg gave a good account of himself and I also thought Bruno Senna did well too - he was another to make some serious progress in the opening laps IIRC, but he still seems to lack pace in the meat of the race before coming back again later on...

From how far back did Grosjean come though? It must've been near the back after his opening lap mugging by everyone?

**Peter Mallett** · 10 Jul 2012, 15:05 (Ref:3104678)

I disagree with you, the PM SP incident was a defining point of the race for two teams.
As to Grosjean, he was pretty good to come back from where he was and I don't think anyone should blame him for the Di Resta contact.

What surprised me was the lines the cars could take almost anywhere, about the only places where they used the same lines as the rest of us mortals was Club and Becketts to Abbey. Everywhere else they could virtually perm any variation they wished.

S14 · 10 Jul 2012, 18:43 (Ref:3104749)

A quick question - I finally caught the GP on Speed - days later, natch - and I've got to ask, when they were spraying the champagne, were they playing Bizet at the circuit (sounded like the overture from Carmen) or was that just on tv?

**Born Racer** · 11 Jul 2012, 13:40 (Ref:3105128)

I don't understand why Ferrari didn't run a couple of longer stints on the hards, a few laps each stint and then several laps shorter on the softs. That would have given them the edge. As it was, they were really risking those softs.

S14- that usually plays out over the tannoy.

mini1400 · 14 Jul 2012, 17:05 (Ref:3106401)

Quote:

Originally Posted by beau1

If things like the larger music festivals, other massive sporting events or one-offs like the Queen's Barge up the Thames and the majority of the Olympic Relay had been cancelled, then maybe it would be a better comparison.

Most of the larger events that I can think of have been cancelled either due to the economic climate/low ticket sales or due to clashes with the Olympics.

T in the Park?

beau1 · 14 Jul 2012, 21:41 (Ref:3106460)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mini1400

T in the Park?

T In the Park went ahead and wasn't affected by the weather anymore than the majority of other festivals this year.

As far I know they weren't turning away paying customers for a day of the festival.

**Adam43** · 14 Jul 2012, 22:16 (Ref:3106469)

Maybe mini1400 was thinking about the Hyde Park concert this week. Bruce is going ahead, but paying customers were turned away earlier in the week and couldn't see Kylie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Waterman

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-18785438
People have come from all over the world to make this happen...
What can I say? We've had exceptional weather. If it's not safe, it's not safe and you can't control that.

Sounds so similar it hurts.

beau1 · 14 Jul 2012, 22:31 (Ref:3106475)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam43

Maybe mini1400 was thinking about the Hyde Park concert this week. Bruce is going ahead, but paying customers were turned away earlier in the week and couldn't see Kylie.
Sounds so similar it hurts.

Thanks for the clarification.

Thats a bit bizarre if you ask me. That show was meant to be happening on Wednesday and yet Hard Rock Calling hasn't been cancelled even though it is at the same location and started on Friday.

Sounds like the one-off event wasn't organised properly whereas the annual one was and could cope with the conditions.

**Adam43** · 15 Jul 2012, 15:20 (Ref:3106686)

Sacrifice the lesser event for the big one at the weekend?

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